Jen Dugard (00:02.542)
Jen, welcome to the Mumsafe Pro podcast. How are you?
Gen (00:06.633)
Thank you. Thank you. I'm pretty good. Pretty good. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Jen Dugard (00:10.796)
It's a good question to ask, isn't it? And then to consider the response. We'll get there. Team, for those of you listening, Jen has got a four and a half month old at home who is asleep. We're going to touch wood and say that she's asleep. And another one watching TV. So, you know, we're working in the space of working with women and moms and babies. So if we have interruptions or there's a little bit of background noise, we're just going to...
Gen (00:14.215)
Yes. How long do you have really? Yes.
Gen (00:26.463)
Thank
Jen Dugard (00:37.846)
roll with that this morning. It's the beauty of working and mothering at the same time. Yeah. Hey Jen, let's kick off with your word to share how you're showing up today. Then we'll do your win and then something that you're working on at the moment.
Gen (00:38.569)
Go with it.
Gen (00:51.773)
Yep. So my win, because I have to be scammed when I do things, the win is that I'm here today and we are doing this. The word is, yeah, slightly frazzled, frazzled, but not at the full end of frazzled. And something I'm working on, actually, we just recorded in my pregnancy and it's just coming to fruition now as a podcast as well.
Jen Dugard (01:01.25)
We did it.
Jen Dugard (01:19.916)
I did see that, that you've just launched a podcast.
Gen (01:22.417)
Yeah, yes, a wild, but yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:24.696)
Tell us a little bit about what it's about and what you'll be focusing on.
Gen (01:29.043)
Yep, so I recorded with Michelle Owens from my hypnobirthing. So she is a birthing educator. Yeah, we're talking all things pregnancy, postpartum, exercise, nutrition in pregnancy, birth education, birth stories. The season has 10 episodes. I don't even know how we did that. I did that in the very light weeks of my pregnancy.
Jen Dugard (01:57.929)
wow, well done.
Gen (01:59.429)
I actually asked Michelle if she'd like to do a podcast, two years ago. She was too busy at the time. And then she comes to me like when I'm 34 weeks pregnant, I'm like, yeah, sure, let's do that. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (02:04.5)
Of course he did.
Jen Dugard (02:14.422)
Amazing, well done. So good. Jen, we ended up talking today, we know it's Prolapse Awareness Month in Australia, I'm not sure if it's across the world, but you have a story around pregnancy with prolapse, so we're gonna delve into that today. But before we get to that part, do wanna share with us a little bit about, I mean, you are one of our Momsafe trainers, and we know now that it's basically your two year anniversary, which is exciting.
But give us the rundown of where you started, how you got into the fitness industry, and how you ended up working in the pregnancy postpartum space.
Gen (02:53.479)
Yep. I have worked in health and fitness for a very long time. My very first start in health and fitness was in gym sales and then gym management. And then I decided to be a PT eight or nine years ago. And I worked in a big box gym. This is before I had the kids. was, yeah, female health. I was helping
the busy corporate person, woman, to prioritise themselves and I guess that evolved when I had MAV, my first born and then I did Safe Return to Exercise and as it does when you have your first born it cracks your heart wide open and then I've learnt some more about female health in Safe Return to Exercise and
Yeah, I evolved to helping mums prioritize themselves in the chaos, which is about six, nine to six now.
Jen Dugard (03:56.302)
Mmm.
Jen Dugard (03:59.896)
Yeah, and tell us a little bit about what your business looks like now. Obviously, it's, you you're just easing your way back in. wouldn't say, actually, I want to reframe that. You're not just easing your way back in. You're fucking easing your way back in with three children in tow.
Gen (04:06.421)
Thank you.
Gen (04:11.391)
Wow. I feel blessed with it. A lot of the work that I did last year has still, I guess, stuck. I have one group session. So I do listen to some of the things that you do say, Maybe not straight away, it might take me two years for that to implement, but I've kept it to one group session. I really want to put on more sessions, but I'm not going to until...
Jen Dugard (04:28.302)
Hahaha
Gen (04:39.197)
I just get to like eight or 10, but I've got.
Jen Dugard (04:44.142)
Is that an upset noise or is that an excited noise? Okay, cool, let's carry on. As long as you're happy and we're happy. We've already promised there's gonna be bit of children noise, it's good.
Gen (04:44.205)
group session.
No, no, she's just having fun watching.
Gen (04:56.081)
Yeah, so yes, I have a group session and I have a few ones that I'm doing in some nutrition consults and they're ticking along well. I'm working on a term basis. Do I have time? Have I put in place enough time for marketing? No. The podcast's come out and launched somehow in the middle of all that and that's kind of where it's at.
Jen Dugard (05:03.992)
Yep.
Jen Dugard (05:21.208)
But you've positioned yourself really nicely as a print. Like when we go and look at your socials and we go to your website, it's very obvious what you do and who you do it for.
Gen (05:30.323)
Yes, yeah, think, yeah, I'm very, I had somehow in the middle of my pregnancy last year, around 20 weeks, this amazing creative flow. I don't know where it came from. It definitely has gone. It's not there anymore. I lost it at the end of the pregnancy, but yeah, I felt in flow, it was quite amazing. So some of that is still, I'm still there without me really, you know.
jumping in and doing it, but yeah, things drop when they drop for me at the moment, yep.
Jen Dugard (06:04.982)
Yeah, and that's when you created your new website at that point.
Gen (06:08.499)
That was actually, again, year of working before that, when it finally dropped. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (06:11.574)
Amazing. Yep. Yep. And Jenn, you've got some nutrition coaching certifications. Tell us a little bit about that and how it fits into what you do.
Gen (06:22.503)
Yes, well, I'm a holistic nutrition consultant specializing pattern. So in specializing pregnancy postpartum babies. So yes, there's nutrients that a pregnant postpartum or baby needs to focus on, but there's other things outside of that that will help them uplevel as we know, especially for mom's movement, nervous system, restoration.
Jen Dugard (06:26.402)
What does that mean? What does that mean?
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (06:43.426)
Mmm.
Gen (06:52.659)
Yeah, so I guess helping mums to prioritize what's the most important thing in that space.
Jen Dugard (06:57.234)
Mm. Yeah, and I love on your website how you've got nutrition, functional movement and strength and it's like it all brings it all together beautifully. Yeah.
Gen (07:06.207)
Yeah, it's hard to get it all into a, when you say a word like my, I've got a lot of words going on in my head. So yeah, trying to put a website and just a little bit of what I do is very hard, but yes, that's it.
Jen Dugard (07:13.39)
That's okay, you're allowed all the words, all the words.
Jen Dugard (07:20.942)
Yeah, I think you've it really well. I liked going through and having a look at the way you've positioned everything. Jen, let's talk about the prolapse element. So, you you've got three children. I don't know where you want to start. Was it something that occurred after Maverick was born or was it? Give us a little bit of a runway as to, you know, going into this latest pregnancy with a prolapse already and then what that meant and how you've managed that.
Gen (07:27.411)
Thank you.
Gen (07:52.143)
So yeah, it's been more of a mental battle to be honest than the physical. There's my ego and then there is me as well. And obviously I work in this space as well. I've helped other women with it, but I guess if I'm 100 % honest, I never thought it would happen to me. That's what my honest...
Jen Dugard (07:56.77)
Mmm.
Gen (08:19.913)
truth is. I had birthed maverick and harlow, my first two. You know, I did the natural physiological birth and I was so proud of that and still am, even with Alaska. But
Did I know that those, the stats are nine out of 10 women will have some level of prolapse? Probably didn't know that. If I did, I still do it? Probably. I guess, and I have seen a women's health physio based on the learnings that I've had with youth, particularly from that first safe return to exercise. I did see public health physio post-MAB. I didn't see one before he was born.
couple of times than I saw in pregnancy with my second. And I think the pelvic health physio I did see back at that time post like the six weeks checkup after my second birth. I think she did tell me there was a little bit of prolapse, but I didn't, I just took it as a little bit of, know, stuff that happens after birth and then I was gonna be fine because I was doing my pelvic floor exercises and blah, blah, blah. Again, I guess.
My two years post my second birth, I felt symptoms and it took me a long time to recover after.
Jen Dugard (09:45.582)
What kind of birth did you or like what was the birth experience like with Harlow?
Gen (09:50.759)
I had a beautiful water birth. I was very exhausted going into birth. It was different completely. It was COVID. Yeah, I had the birth that I wanted. With Mav, I wanted a water birth. I didn't quite have that, but I still had a beautiful birth. I think where it kind of, yeah, I feel a bit.
unclear is that I went to see Pelvic Health Physio two years post-Halo and she didn't mention anything of it. And you know, we had to do, I had some pelvic floor exercises that I needed to work on. I was trying to come at it to look after myself. And then we moved here to the coast, Inverlo. Again, I was also trying to connect with Pelvic Health Physio from a business perspective.
as well as again, into just looking after my pelvic health. And again, didn't know I mentioned anything of it. And I actually had an appointment and my period was due and I was like, oh, I don't know if I'll be able to come. And then she goes, it's okay, it's fine. You can come. I was like, okay, whatever. Period didn't come. So I was like, oh, it's just a bit late my period. And it turned out then I was pregnant with my third baby.
Gen (11:17.338)
So, yeah, so then again, I went to see the pelvic health physio when I was 20 weeks and she told me, but she did tell me about the prolapse and I remember telling me in the appointment and I was like, okay. And then I remember coming home and then, cause I was pregnant, obviously I had weight on my pelvic floor and then I connected and I could feel a bit like a bulge basically and.
Again, it still took me weeks and weeks and weeks to not be in denial that I prolapse.
Jen Dugard (11:51.32)
What was that about, do you think? Like what was the denial part?
Gen (11:55.741)
I don't know, yeah, my ego probably, my ego.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I've worked, like I said, I've worked with women who've had prolapse. I've supported them, but when it happened to me, I was very...
Yeah, emotional. Or what haven't I done? You know, it's like, why? Why has it happened? That was the hard part.
Jen Dugard (12:23.722)
Yeah, and I, there's that element isn't there when it's like something that you do and like you say you've supported other people and then it happens to you and it's a surprise and there's almost like not only an element of I never thought that would happen to me but that element of why didn't I know that this was happening or why didn't I prevent this from happening which is none of that is helpful but it's there.
Gen (12:39.646)
Yep.
Gen (12:43.059)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. didn't, yeah, and especially, you know, I didn't have a understanding, how did it happen? How did it happen? And I still don't really have a definitive answer. I'm 43 when I conceived my third. I've done a lot of weight training in the last 20 years. Is it that?
Did I not do enough pelvic floor exercises? And then since obviously my birth, third birth, I've had like, I'm, you know, deep diving again into how, why is it my breathing? I have a, you know, is it my rib cage is stuck? Is it my intra-abdominal pressure I'm putting bearing down too much? Like the more you learn, the more you learn that you don't know and
the more I think.
and have to let it go and go, this is your body, you had three babies.
Jen Dugard (13:44.342)
Hmm.
Gen (13:50.311)
It's not broken, it's just healing.
Jen Dugard (13:52.367)
Jen, did you have any signs and symptoms before the pelvic health physio told you that you had a prolapse?
Gen (14:00.767)
Well, yes, before I fell pregnant I did and that's why I went to the hospital.
Jen Dugard (14:03.214)
tell us about... right, so that's why you were at the physio in the first place.
Gen (14:07.059)
Yeah, that, yeah. I've experienced a bit of leaking and I do, and I think I look back to this even before I had the kids, like pre-period, I'd have some symptoms of leaking, not strong in my pelvic floor, but I wouldn't get it all the time. And that same thing was happening before I fell pregnant for the third time. So I was trying to work on that, but I didn't realize that was.
Prolapse. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (14:37.48)
And were you told that the leaking was to do with the prolapse?
Gen (14:45.905)
not, or once, once I'd been diagnosed with prolapse, yes, but not before that, yeah.
Jen Dugard (14:53.166)
I think it's important for people to understand that you can be leaking without prolapse. But if your pelvic floor and if your pelvic floor is not contracting in order to support the organs of your pelvis, then that can lead to prolapse. They don't necessarily go hand in hand. You can have a prolapse without having a weak pelvic floor as well, which is another interesting. Yeah. But so you'd had symptoms of leaking, symptoms of heaviness as well, pre that?
Gen (14:58.376)
Yeah.
Gen (15:07.751)
Yeah. No, they don't.
Gen (15:19.231)
Well, yeah, I guess again, that one was a bit, I would just feel tired and weak at the end of the day.
Jen Dugard (15:27.922)
like what did that feel like? So I guess what I'm trying to do is there's trainers listening, potentially mums listening, if their clients are saying to them this is what I'm feeling or if they have got pregnant clients or postpartum clients what are the things that they need to ask or descriptions that they need to use?
Gen (15:42.239)
Yep. Yes. Yep. Definitely had a sense of heaviness at the end of the day. And once I kind of accepted that that's what I had, I would feel that even more intensely, very much. Obviously, early after birth, I would feel that I could barely walk around without feeling that. And I look now to go, wow, I actually don't feel that.
Jen Dugard (15:57.006)
Hmm.
Gen (16:10.151)
anymore, not anymore. And I guess, yeah, the two main things was leaking and also that heavy heaviness feeling and feeling of weak and that I have to lie down and be horizontal.
Jen Dugard (16:23.861)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then, so guess you learn this very early pregnancy. What does then that mean for the pregnancy? Like, how do you adapt things? What were you guided to do?
Gen (16:35.999)
Yeah, so when I saw, I think I saw one, had appointment at 22 weeks, I don't think I really changed too much. I was still doing my weight training. And then I went back around 30 weeks with a bit more acceptance. And yeah, would feel, yeah, heaviness at the end of the day, tired. And I would just try and...
I was 30 weeks pregnant at that point, so I guess I'd accept that mentally as well. I was starting to slow down mentally as well, so I would allow myself, if I could, have a little rest during the day, 20 minutes. Yeah, but I was still quite confused at that point too, yeah.
Jen Dugard (17:21.678)
and how did your training change?
Gen (17:25.562)
I was training the gym early pregnancy and then that went out the window and I just trained from home with weights and dumbbells. And yeah, with both other two pregnancies, I trained all the way up until 39 weeks with both, whereas this time round, I stopped about 37 weeks. I was starting to get acute pain in my left hip.
like it would just come out of nowhere, ping, and I'd just have to like stop and stretch and release that. So I just listened to my body and did that for the last two weeks, which was amazing. Because in the end I had a one hour labour. So I don't know if I should.
Jen Dugard (18:10.346)
wow, we'll dig into that in a second. We'll get there. With your weight training at home, were you using any specific strategies in order to manage intra-abdominal pressure or support pelvic floor or?
Gen (18:25.361)
I would still do my pelvic floor exercises before my sessions, breathing TVA, but...
Nothing really changed until after I started using Pestri.
Jen Dugard (18:40.312)
Post, yeah. Okay, we can dig into that in a second. I know some people with prolapse, or anyway, find it helpful to exhale on effort and to really think about as you breathe out, draw pelvic floor up. I don't know if you used that technique. Yeah, as best practice anyway. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool.
Gen (18:54.909)
Yep. Well, I felt like I was doing all that. Yep. Yes, yes. Yep. So yeah, didn't change too much. Just went lighter and lighter towards the end and then stopped two weeks prior to birth. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (19:12.716)
Yeah. And then you just shared that your labor was an hour. Tell us about that.
Gen (19:17.791)
Yeah, so both, again, they say not to have any expectations of your labor and birth, but of course I've had two kids and they were pretty much exactly the same. So I'm like, yeah, it's going to be the same for this time. Both were 12 hours, this one, and they came around 39 weeks. I got to 39 weeks and six days and I was like,
we're gonna go over here. Like I wasn't really mentally prepared for that, but that's okay. I'd been getting contractions probably for the last two weeks, but you never know what that means really. And then it was like 9.30 at night when I was speaking to my partner Dels and like, like, guess we're gonna have to wait a bit longer. And I was like, oh.
I just really need to wash my hair. 9.30 at night to wash my hair is quite late for me. I'm usually in bed. And then I basically went into the shower, got a massive contraction. And I was like, whoa! I was like, okay. In denial still that I was in labor. I can do the whole birth story if you want, but yeah, Ben came out an hour later at 39 weeks, six days and 11 hours. She was born.
Jen Dugard (20:41.986)
Were you still at home or you'd got into the hospital? Okay, yep.
Gen (20:44.399)
so I was having a home birth this time. I'll give you the... So I was in the shower basically on all fours. I'd wanted to get out but there was no... the contractions kept coming. And I just remember thinking, because like we were... I knew we about an hour into it. I just remember thinking...
Fuck, if this is gonna go for another eight to 10 hours, I'm not gonna make it. Like, I'm really not gonna make it. Yeah, yeah, and that was my transition. That was my, and then all of a sudden she crowned. My forearms are on the bottom of the shower. Like, we're gonna have the, we had the bath running so I could get in the bath. Couldn't get out of the shower. My bum's up. My midwife still hasn't arrived because we've just called her to go in. Oh, think we might be, something might be happening, but you know, not just yet.
Jen Dugard (21:11.566)
Because the intensity was so strong to start with,
Gen (21:34.387)
midwife knew that I was pretty much ready to go. And basically head was crowning and then Douse was there going off, shit, I'm gonna have to catch the game. And Amanda, my midwife came in just and Douse was like, okay, you do it just as she came out. So yeah, it was maybe that exacerbated it. don't know, the research says it doesn't but.
Jen Dugard (21:44.856)
Deliver a baby.
Jen Dugard (22:01.874)
the birth doesn't or the position of birth or the speed of birth.
Gen (22:05.539)
speed, the speed I feel maybe. But she was like, I guess I was in labour for like days before that with the contractions that were happening. Maybe it was the stretches. I don't know. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (22:17.954)
Mm-hmm.
So then have you, I mean, congratulations for having a baby at home. you know, it's a lot when you think you're in it for 12 hours and then all of a sudden the baby arrives in an hour, it was a little bit of adjustment mentally. Tell me then more about, tell us more about the prolapse journey.
Gen (22:25.811)
Yeah, thank you. Yeah.
Gen (22:32.55)
I know. Yeah. Yeah.
Gen (22:41.769)
Yeah, yeah, okay. So I had mentally prepared to do...
five five five method. You know, you in bed for five days, close to the bed for five days and then whatever near the bed for five days. So I had all that set up. I had the most beautiful support in my postpartum to lie in the bed. I wasn't mentally prepared for how I didn't want to be in the bed. Like I just wanted to do normal life.
Jen Dugard (22:49.976)
with it.
Jen Dugard (23:11.894)
Mm-hmm.
Gen (23:13.693)
Yeah, it was. I could barely walk. I could barely walk after. I could feel so heavy and loose and weak. And if I did stand up to go to the toilet or do whatever, I felt like, I need to go back, get back to the bed. So.
Jen Dugard (23:31.864)
Did that feel like when you say you needed to, I'm just trying to give as much language as possible to people that are listening.
Gen (23:35.931)
Yeah, it felt...
Gen (23:42.985)
Yeah, very wobbly, very unstable, very weak and yes, heaviness, but yeah, I didn't feel my full strength of what we take for granted to be able to walk down the road. Like I didn't have that in me. And, know, mentally I need to go out and talk to people and see people. And that part was hard, but in terms of the physical, I had prepared for that to be at home. still...
Jen Dugard (23:52.995)
Mm-hmm.
Gen (24:12.851)
you know, day one worked on my pelvic floor exercises, some mobility work just to, again, mentally look after myself as well as the physical as well. But yeah, I felt like that for like weeks and weeks and weeks. It obviously gradually changed, but yeah, those first few weeks,
And I guess what dedicated me to resting and lying horizontal and trying to have a good recovery was that my son was going to prep the next week after I birthed Alaska. So I wanted to make sure that I could get to school that day. So yeah, the recovery was like.
bed rest as much as I could possibly manage, yeah.
Jen Dugard (25:05.354)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then did you see the pelvic health physio at some point postpartum?
Gen (25:11.423)
Yeah, yes. So she did say to me in pregnancy, come if you can, if you're not bleeding, come back in three weeks or so, so we can fit the pessary. So I knew it was going to have a pessary. I think I may have gone back four or five weeks. I had stopped bleeding, but of course, when I went to see her, I started bleeding again. So then we couldn't fit the pessary because there's risk of infection. And that was unfortunate because the
I live regional, it's an hour away to get there. But yeah, she checked in with me, she said everything hasn't gotten worse or anything like that. I'll come back again at six weeks and we'll fit the passary.
Jen Dugard (25:57.07)
Do want to share what a pester is for anyone listening?
Gen (26:00.223)
Yeah, I didn't actually really, I'd never seen one before I had mine. I guess it's a silicon little, mine is anyway, there's lots of different ones. Square sort of object that you insert inside of your vagina all the way up the pelvic floor and it helps to keep all your organs up.
Jen Dugard (26:19.446)
Yeah, so there's lots of different shapes like so you said you've got a square and you can get round ones, there's ones with holes in the middle, there's ones with little like little knobs on the end and they are exactly like you said designed to you know go into the vaginas, sit on the walls of the vagina and hold the organs of the pelvic floor, sorry the organs of the pelvis off the pelvic floor so that the pelvic floor can.
move more freely and hopefully we retrain without that downward pressure of the organs which may have dropped further down into the pelvis you know throughout pregnancy or childbirth or life. What was the process of having a pessary fitted like for you?
Gen (26:56.071)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gen (27:08.515)
I'm glad I knew I was going to use that as a method of part of my recovery. Do I love my aunt? No. Do I want to shove something up there after I've had my three babies? No. But I also want to do everything possible to support that. So it hasn't been a smooth...
Jen Dugard (27:14.179)
Mm-hmm.
Gen (27:38.367)
I guess recovery, I used the Pestri then I started bleeding. So then I had to go to the GP, get some estrogen Pestri tablets. So then we went and got that. Then I got my period back three months post-natal. Yep. Lucky me. Very grateful. So then I didn't want to use that. So, but now I'm four and a half months. I use it on days when
Jen Dugard (27:49.667)
Yep.
Jen Dugard (27:55.106)
Lucky you.
Gen (28:08.529)
I'm like busy, I've got clients or I'm training. And I've also, I guess now I've realised the things that do trigger me, which are more funnily enough, it's not weight training. It's more walking with the pram, which...
Jen Dugard (28:20.557)
Interesting.
Gen (28:26.951)
It is what it is. I know that now when I do that, if I feel symptomatic, I come back, I do legs up the wall, which is so restorative for not even just my pelvic floor, just for everything, my nervous system and mentally. And then, I do feel gravity is working with gravity. It releases whatever I'm feeling on my pelvic floor. I can do it 20 minutes is ideal. And bang, I'm back doing the things.
Jen Dugard (28:56.206)
What would you say to someone who has maybe heard of a pessary but not explored it much further or a trainer that's listening whose clients like frustrated with their pelvic floor or maybe they have or haven't ever learned about a pessary. What would you say to the mum that might be apprehensive or the trainer that might want to introduce it to their client or
Gen (29:25.203)
Yeah, I think.
if the person or who is going through that just wants to have, I guess, an open mind and try something that may be helpful or supportive. You know, obviously, since this has happened to me, speak to other women and they tell me about their experience. People that I've spoken to that have, I'm not quite there yet, but people who have had prolapse and have used a pessary have...
had success and then they no longer use the pessary anymore. You know, there is the option if they give that a go and work with their pelvic health physio, follow their exercises that I know that can be boring, that can be hard to manage in your day, but if you can just give yourself that bit of time, then maybe, like for me, I don't wanna have surgery. I don't wanna do that. I don't think I'll get to that.
place but there's that is an option too so it just depends on the person and how they want to work on their recovery but you know anything is worth a shot really.
Jen Dugard (30:38.158)
And to a trainer who has a client that has a prolapse, how would you want to receive a conversation? how would you want your trainer to talk to you about a pest array if you hadn't really ever heard of it but you were looking for solutions to keep moving?
Gen (30:55.455)
Yeah. I think obviously as a trainer or as a mum safe trainer, I always want to work alongside a pelvic health physio. So we can have a personalized approach for the client. Yeah. And ideally I would mention that use of Pestri could be something that could be a solution or a part of their healing journey. And to explore that with a pelvic health physio.
because it's a lot to, if you've never heard about that or you've never worked in that space or don't know it, so it's a lot. hopefully both myself and the trainer and the physio could work together to support that person to see if that's the right step for them.
Jen Dugard (31:44.046)
Yep, Jen, if you're happy to go there, like from an emotional perspective, what has your journey with prolapse, what's it been like? And I know that we said at the beginning it was hard to accept and that kind of thing, but I think this is a moment that if there's a trainer listening that knows a mom that has a prolapse or there's a mom listening that thinks that they're alone or this is like the, that you're not alone and the feelings are normal.
Gen (32:10.045)
Yep, I'm going to just get bubs and come back and answer questions for you.
Jen Dugard (32:13.122)
Go get, go get.
Gen (32:33.311)
We've got a special guest here.
Jen Dugard (32:36.824)
Hello, little one. Hi.
Gen (32:40.191)
Okay, so everyone again, everyone's journey is going to be different here. But for me, I am, I've always felt immature, young, I don't know. And that was the first thing that made like, it made me feel old and broken and
Yeah, and again, not having an exact reason why it happened or how or when really, really upset me because I'm that type of person. If there's something not working, fix it, right?
So, yeah, that was hard, obviously. Yeah, I did feel alone. I felt like no one else in the world has this. This has happened to me. I did go into a bit of, me and what didn't I do right? And yeah, before I could, I wallowed in that for a while before I looked at all the things that could be done to help. And...
Jen Dugard (33:30.547)
excuse you.
Gen (34:00.307)
Yeah, maybe it is my age. I don't know. like, you know, 44 now that I've birthed her.
But yeah, yeah, I did feel sad, broken. I felt a fear. I guess I felt fear from being able to do the things that I normally love to do, which is strength train, know, go for walks with my kids and yeah, but I guess also look, I'm four and a half months postpartum. Like that's still quite early in the whole scheme of things and
somehow the fear has lifted. I don't feel like that anymore. I feel like I still go for walks. can still do my, I'm finally getting back into progressive overload methods. And if I do feel like I've pushed it a little bit, I'm not like freaking out or anything like that. I know what to do to kind of manage it.
Jen Dugard (35:02.894)
Hmm.
Gen (35:06.845)
Yeah, yeah, but it was probably one of the hardest physical things that I've gone through, especially because I put so much...
I guess, significance in preparing for my births being so, yeah, those three births are some of the biggest, they're the biggest achievements of my life. in reflecting on that, that also makes me feel so.
Jen Dugard (35:31.811)
Hmm.
Gen (35:41.679)
guess at peace with it with Prolapse because it's a part of what has enabled me to have the three beautiful kids that I have, yeah.
Jen Dugard (35:51.126)
Hmm, that's a really,
positive, positive is not the way, like a really reflective way of looking at it, which is, well, and that's what I kind of, I think the language or the thoughts that were coming to me when I was hearing you speak is, you know, if anyone's listening or anyone knows someone, you're gonna go through periods of sadness, you're gonna go through maybe periods of anger, why me, what could I have done different, why didn't Pete someone tell me something?
Gen (36:00.637)
Yeah, I've only just got there.
Gen (36:09.789)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (36:22.946)
But then also if you did know, I knew and I still couldn't prevent something happening. And then also that there is support for you and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. So it's that, you know, no state remains the same and we become aware, we adjust and we start to move forward. So it's knowing that it's not a static place that you're gonna be.
Gen (36:35.347)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gen (36:41.715)
Yeah.
Gen (36:49.351)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jen Dugard (36:53.048)
Jen, you talked about age and we kind of had this conversation around where postpartum meets perimenopause and I guess you're like literally there right now. Tell us about that. Tell us about, you know, what are postpartum symptoms, what are perimenopausal symptoms, how are they coming together, how are you dealing with it? Like, what is this? Is this this part of me or this part of me?
Gen (37:01.213)
No.
Gen (37:09.939)
Yeah.
Very confusing.
Um, look, I don't know. don't know. Am I in peri? I don't, I don't know that there is possibly. Um, I also, I don't know if identify that I have ADHD, but I, um, have been diagnosed with that at time. Again, maybe eight, nine years ago, but I guess the way that I manage it is through, you know, sleep, nutrition, um,
being grounded, meditation, those sorts of things, which are completely all over the shop at this moment in time. So yeah, and I, like I said, I've got my period back. I've had it twice in the last four and a half months. But yeah, I've experienced symptoms that I don't, haven't previously, like I had a really sore back.
two days before I my period, which I don't usually have much PMS sort of symptoms. And I was like, oh God, what have I done? Have I trained too hard? Have I done something? I was like, still only not lifting that much. And then the next day I was very scattered, very, very small than normal. And struggling to get myself, my daughter to the dance class that we normally do.
Gen (38:40.735)
I actually had two clients booked. This was last Friday. I had to reschedule one, but I didn't know at the time that that was my period coming. I felt completely overwhelmed, exhausted, and I had nothing to give. And then lo and behold, my period showed up. So I guess the symptoms that I experienced pre-period was, yeah.
cognitive decline, definitely. And yeah, I made that sort of back pain, which I don't normally get, but you know, again, it's still early in terms of postpartum, right? So that could be quite normal in the journey of postpartum. Some people don't get their period back till after they finish breastfeeding. So, I don't know.
Jen Dugard (39:31.042)
Have you sought out any support from doctors, GPs, anything like that for?
Gen (39:36.883)
I've just started to see a naturopath. So I got bloods at six weeks. I've given her what I have. We still need to investigate things like vitamin D and B12 because that was missing. I'll go see her in a couple of weeks for a follow up.
Jen Dugard (39:39.011)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (39:56.142)
Yep, Jen, if I was to ask you what's next for you in motherhood business, what's happening?
Gen (40:08.154)
Yes, I have, what I would love to do, what I will do, I just don't know when it will land, is, and I've started doing, is I've signed up to Kajabi, which is an online platform where you run all of your content for us as well. So I have got some content that I've filmed.
Jen Dugard (40:21.858)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Gen (40:33.449)
pregnancy. I've done bits and pieces and it's completely dropped off right now but I would love to get an online platform for pregnancy postpartum, peri and beyond.
In terms of how I get there, I'm not 100 % sure. I have some days available in terms of my two older's go to school. I'm trying to, and kinder, so there's three days there. But what I've learnt is that I probably need to pull back and just do two days of clients, one day of mum life or mat life, mat leave with little miss.
And if I feel like doing it, then I'll do something on the Wednesday for now. That's where it is. whatever I can get in filming, clients, breathing, eating, doing my own training in that time, is this how fast I'll go. So it's easy for me to say that right now, but when I'm in that, I get really frustrated myself because I'm not moving fast enough.
Jen Dugard (41:38.254)
I was gonna ask you that because it's one of the key things that I speak to a lot of moms who are business owners who want to grow their business and they're also juggling, you know, three, two, three, four kids, little kids. How do you allow yourself, I did hear that you said you get frustrated, but what are the key things that you put in place to make sure that you can manage everything that's going on?
Gen (41:48.541)
Yes. Yeah.
Gen (42:03.613)
Yeah, yeah, think, yeah, what I've just realized is yes, well, I had in my mind as well, yes, I'm going to work and do, so I went back at eight weeks postpartum, like, like in a very light capacity. And I'm, I still love and want to do that. And I knew I'd find the balance would...
hit on tip over and all that sort of stuff. But I think, you know, same with the training and things like that, there's times when it's okay to keep working or okay to keep training when you're tired and work through that. And there's a time when you do need to stop and have a rest. And so I've just got to do that when I have to do that. There's no like, there's no planning that in the calendar. It's just, I have to know when that happens.
and just allow spice for that.
Jen Dugard (42:56.078)
it's that permission piece isn't it permission to do what I can do right now and know that every little piece that I manage to do no matter how big or small on any given day is moving me in the direction that I want to go in.
Gen (43:08.489)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Exactly. And I did that on Wednesday. An example of that is I did that Wednesday, Tuesday, I woke up still finishing my period. was like, okay, tomorrow you're just going to have a rest and do nothing. I woke up, went for coffee with some mums, did a walk, came home, did some rehab, did a strength training. And then she went down for a nap and I was like, okay, I just have one task that I need to get done. I'll do that task. And I felt
freaking losing. an example of pulling back, doing less equals more. We know that. I'd like to get caught up in the crazy of it.
Jen Dugard (43:47.777)
Now we've got my dog barking in the background as well. All the things are going on in this podcast. Doesn't happen every episode. Jen, if I was to ask you what, if you could change one thing about the fitness industry when it comes to pregnant and postpartum women, what would it be?
Gen (43:51.902)
Yeah.
Gen (44:10.271)
Like it just needs.
Gen (44:19.025)
It needs more of us. It needs more of us, you know, like, I think it's easy for me and not easy, but there's me and you in here in the middle of it going, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is, this is what you need to do. And there's people who see that and they go, yep, cool, cool, cool. But there's such a big proportion of people. I'm not like, disregarding any other type of movement or like, you know, but there's other areas like.
CrossFit or other strength training gyms that just don't have this education in place or information in place for the trainers or their clients as well. And yeah, even for me, like I said, I've experienced prolapse working in this area. I know how to look after my pelvic floor. I've known to go see the pelvic health because yeah, but it's still happened. So we need better.
It needs to be compulsory Jen, like can you make it compulsory all over Australia, just out with Australia and then we'll see. It needs to be compulsory somehow.
Jen Dugard (45:16.046)
I'm trying, trying, we're trying. Yeah, it's getting there. even just before we recorded this, I had a conversation with a brand and with two men who are incredibly proactive. So, you know, it's minute and it's not fast enough for our standards. It's slowly, slowly moving forward. And I think...
Gen (45:25.919)
Hmm.
Gen (45:31.881)
Yeah.
Gen (45:40.691)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (45:45.378)
You know, that's why we need more Mumsafe. Like I've always for years, I've been like, you know, you've got the big boxes and you've got the gyms and things. And yet, yes, you know what, we could create massive change if they would get on board, but we need this groundswell of the individual. We call them the army of Mumsafe trainers, the ants on the ground just going, well, we're to just like come together, pick this up and create a massive impact. And that, like, I don't think my heart will ever be removed from bringing together.
Gen (45:58.035)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (46:13.91)
Mumsafe trainers to create that lasting change.
Gen (46:16.275)
Yeah, and then also from the opposite end of say, CrossFit, there's also the awareness in yoga, Pilates that needs to be there too. And somehow that needs to be integrated. anyway, maybe another podcast, but yeah.
Jen Dugard (46:28.684)
We will get there. We will absolutely. And you know, if we don't get there completely in our lifetime, when we look back and go, this was the legacy that we left and we moved from here to here. And some days I'm like, we're moving really, really well. And other days it's like, fuck, I've been doing this for nearly 17 years and we've not moved at all. But it's that dedication to the mission and the continued work and knowing that there's other people around you doing it as well.
Gen (46:34.782)
away.
Gen (46:44.585)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (46:58.36)
Yeah. Jen, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you to Little Alaska for joining me. And then we had music from Harlow in the background. So we've had the whole, well, not quite the whole tribe, but I have to say, I appreciate you making time specifically now so that we can get this out during Prolapse Awareness Month, juggling little people, being four and a half months postpartum, having all the ups and downs coming with it.
Gen (47:08.531)
Hello.
Gen (47:22.611)
Thanks.
Jen Dugard (47:23.604)
And thank you so much for being part of our MUMsafe community, MUMsafe team that are working together to make a change. I feel privileged to work alongside you.
Gen (47:33.727)
Thank you and thank you for having me. Thank you for working with all the things. Yeah, it helps to spread the word and help other trainers and then help other individuals who are going through some of these.
Jen Dugard (47:37.144)
Absolutely.
Jen Dugard (47:47.04)
Absolutely. Hey Jen, just before we go, if someone wants to find you online, where would they go?
Gen (47:52.575)
probably my Instagram or my website Instagram is Jen G. George E. N. Rosario D. R. O. Z. A. R. I. O. that's the website www.jendirasario.com.au
Jen Dugard (48:10.902)
Amazing. Have a beautiful rest of your day. Thanks Jen.
Gen (48:13.523)
Thank you so much and chat to you again soon. Bye.
Jen Dugard (48:17.422)
Take care.
