Jen Dugard (00:02.188)
Lisa, welcome to the podcast. How are you? You're very welcome. I'm so excited that you're here. Let's dive straight in. So share with us today a word to share how you're showing up, something that you're winning out and something that you're working on.
Lisa (00:06.608)
Good, thanks for having me, Jen.
Lisa (00:22.332)
Word is a nervous-cited and I got this from my daughter. I am nervous slash excited. So that's pretty much how that's my word. Win is the community that we're building. The last couple of terms for the studio have been super exciting. So that is my win and working on
Jen Dugard (00:31.95)
love that. I love it.
Lisa (00:51.59)
Managing my time? Can I say that? is it? Working on.
Jen Dugard (00:55.17)
Hmm... Mm-hmm.
Lisa (01:02.118)
how I can be more productive in the, yeah, working on how I can be more productive in the time that I have. Yeah, now that it's busy.
Jen Dugard (01:02.86)
You can say managing your time, I think that's a really good one.
Jen Dugard (01:13.302)
Yeah. I will dig into that, right? Because it's, it's almost like...
Lisa (01:16.774)
Hahaha!
Jen Dugard (01:20.98)
What I'm super aware of is whenever we have a podcast with someone's journey is that it's not supposed to be everything's amazing, but you we had a quick chat before we jumped on today and it's like kind of everything is amazing right now, but we're definitely going to dig into what it's taken to get there because I know that it's not been an easy journey.
Lisa (01:30.972)
Mmm.
Lisa (01:44.816)
No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:49.142)
Yep. All right, let's start at the start. Like how did you get to where you are today? Well, how did you get into the fitness industry? Let's go that bit first and then we'll get to today later on.
Lisa (01:53.394)
Okay.
Lisa (02:03.698)
Okay, so fitness industry probably started when I was 20, I'm gonna say 24. And I took a year and I started to become a yoga instructor and absolutely loved it. But I think perhaps looking back, 24 is quite young and to fall in line with values of what I was teaching and my life at the time.
felt there was a disconnect. So I kind of stepped away but thought I love teaching. I was a childcare educator so I've always loved teaching and helping so I think that's just in me and always has been and I thought well how can I stay in this realm but perhaps move into an area that may suit my lifestyle at the moment and chose PT.
a little bit later so I still worked in childcare for a few years and then around 30 when I wanted to make that career change and I'd fallen pregnant with my first child I started to become a PT and that was about 31 so it's coming up to nearly 10 years now yeah in the industry which is pretty crazy yeah
Jen Dugard (03:22.04)
Awesome. Definitely. Time goes really fast, hey?
Lisa (03:26.425)
my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, it really does. 41 this year and like 24 seems like so long ago.
Jen Dugard (03:29.237)
so fast.
24 is a long time ago. my god that's like 20 years ago for me. Yeah crazy. Yeah Lisa before we continue with your like your fitness journey tell me about the first pregnancy journey for you.
Lisa (03:36.397)
It is.
Yeah, a lot has happened.
Lisa (03:50.566)
First pregnancy journey was...
The pregnancy journey wasn't too bad, actually. Pretty, pretty typical pregnancy. The nausea threw out, anything past that up until like 24 weeks. Felt good, I exercised in that pregnancy. But exercised to the knowledge that I had then, not what I have now. And it wasn't until
Jen Dugard (03:57.379)
Mm.
Lisa (04:23.218)
probably post-birth that I was like, whoa, what's happened to my body? And that classic line of why did no one tell me this could happen? So I think that was my point of, yes, I've become a PT, but hang on a minute, if I'm gonna work with moms and women, how am I gonna support them with more knowledge? So that's when I delved into pre and postnatal world. So yeah, the pregnancy was, yeah.
Jen Dugard (04:33.902)
Mm.
Jen Dugard (04:48.59)
Mm.
Lisa (04:52.722)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (04:54.184)
And what was your experience postpartum? So when you're saying, why did no one tell me? Like, what was it for you?
Lisa (05:00.626)
Recovery wise, I had to think about my pelvic floor. I had a fast, quick birth, but that resulted in stitches and people telling me, just as I've even birthed, like, this isn't good, you you're going to have trouble here. Like, maybe you need to go to theatre. no, you should be okay just to do it here. I'm like, what are we doing? Like, what are you doing to me?
So just, sorry, what? I've just had a baby. It was really quick and you didn't believe me. I was giving birth and now I've given birth to a baby. Anyway, it was just like a whole scene. that was probably more of my moment of like what's going on here and not really understanding the full, what could actually be happening post-birth and what my body needed to recover and really.
Jen Dugard (05:30.626)
What part's broken? Yeah.
Jen Dugard (05:56.622)
you
Lisa (05:58.64)
what my pelvic floor is and what damage I could have done, how better I could have prepared for that. So that's kind of, that was the kicker.
Jen Dugard (06:06.574)
Did you get any guidance at all postpartum?
Lisa (06:12.434)
no. I don't even know if there was a... I had a physio visit me for Jimmy, that was two years ago, in the hospital, but I don't think there was anything for my first one. Just, just my stitches checked by the midwife and everything was healing fine. So, yeah, I just took that as okay.
Jen Dugard (06:23.47)
you
Jen Dugard (06:31.331)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (06:38.742)
Yeah, and then I guess what I heard you say before was your choice to delve deeper into pre and postnatal training was off the back of that pregnancy and that birth experience and that return to exercise or movement experience. Do want to dig a little bit more deeply into that, like your experience and then also when you chose to go and learn more?
Lisa (06:49.682)
Mm.
Lisa (07:02.672)
Yeah. So for me, it was kind of, I did a little bit of research on my own as to what that would be like for my pelvic floor, what I need to be looking for, things like that. And then,
Lisa (07:18.238)
Um, moving forward, I knew for my next pregnancy that I wanted to know more about supporting my body through pregnancy and then through birth as well. So it was all a little bit of like a guessing game then, because I really didn't have what I have now. I really didn't have the tools. didn't know what a women's health physio was. I didn't know I could go and see someone. Um, so I wasn't even in the realm that I'm in now. So I feel like I kind of.
Yeah, guessed myself and like Googled and like had a look around and where do I go to? What do I study? Who's going to help me? And what do I need to get in line for next time to be able to spot myself and then also other mums.
Jen Dugard (08:02.062)
And where did you land on that education?
Lisa (08:06.098)
So I did a course, an online course, limitless I think it was back then. And then that was my starting, that was my starter. And I was like, okay, this is giving me a really good idea of what I need to be thinking about. And then by the time, there's less than two years between my first two. So I felt pregnant quite quickly. And...
was much better equipped through that pregnancy. And then post-birth knowing what to be watching out for and where do I go to for support. And then as I've got three children, so then by the time I had my third one, five years later after that, it was just totally, totally different experience. Yeah, sorry, I went, yeah.
Jen Dugard (09:00.696)
And did you have, no go on? Not at all. No, it's good. And were they all vaginal deliveries? Yep, yep. And have you had any, like, what's your recovery been like for Jimmy, like the latest birth?
Lisa (09:01.938)
Tangent there. I went on a bit of a tangent there.
Lisa (09:09.714)
They were, yep. Yep.
Lisa (09:19.612)
This has been my longest recovery. So after I had my second, I felt some heaviness in pelvic floor and I did get checked around, he was probably three or four months and was told I had prolapse, grade one to two prolapse uterine. And I was like, okay, yeah, okay, it's all good. I know what to do. I'm gonna book into a physio. I'm gonna get, you know.
Jen Dugard (09:22.476)
Okay.
Lisa (09:49.042)
After she told me, okay, exercises, knew what to do, had the steps in place. And then in between those two, in the back of my mind, I was always mindful of what I could be, if there was any damage I might be doing, making sure that breath connection, know, doing all those things and putting all those things in place. And then when I was pregnant with Jimmy, I was like, right, okay.
I'm gonna go for a vaginal delivery again I need to make sure everything's gonna be okay because I need to look at my options here to make sure I'm safe and he's safe and then when I went to the physio she said you've got no prolapse and I was like oh sorry she's like there's no prolapse she's like I could do it she could do the internal I was like oh okay all right all right so just just go on as I'm doing yeah come come back and visit me
And I saw her throughout my whole pregnancy and she was amazing. And then postpartum I was a bit concerned and I've had two really fast labors. The first two were super fast and then Jimmy took a week to come. So I had contractions for over a week in and out. And in the end they did break my waters and they induced him and he came super quick, super quick after that. And I ended up with
Jen Dugard (11:11.576)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (11:13.158)
my biggest tear throughout that process. And I did have to go into surgery then and I've had my longest recovery after him. But that was two years ago. And if I didn't put all the steps in place that I needed to then, if I didn't have the knowledge that I had, I wouldn't have built up to the strength that I've got now, which is, yeah, all part of the process. Yeah. So it's been an up and down road. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (11:35.726)
Mm.
Jen Dugard (11:39.532)
Yeah, a journey. Yeah, and do they say you have a prolapse now or no? Interesting.
Lisa (11:46.564)
nothing. Like I was checked. So they monitored me for, because of my tear, they monitored me for a year after Jimmy. And then in the end, my physio went on maternity leave. So another physio did my last check off. And she was like, Lisa, like, I can't check you anymore. Like, she's like, she's like, I don't want to see you. Like you could actually be virgin on the other end. Like, you just like, this is it. Like,
Check, cleared, you're good to go. Obviously down the track, if there's something happens, come back. But for now, she's like, don't need to see you. Cleared me for running, cleared me, yeah. Just was totally not what I was expecting. Yes, the recovery was long, but I didn't mind. He was my last baby. I wanted to take things slow. It was okay. I knew where I had to get to and yeah, I took the time. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (12:15.437)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (12:23.491)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (12:39.373)
Mm.
Jen Dugard (12:42.732)
Well done. So for trainers listening or mums listening that, you know, they hear the word prolapse and what I heard you say was like, I know what to do. What are some of the key things that you would have someone who learns that they have a prolapse either in pregnancy or postpartum? What are some of the best things that you can share from your experience and your knowledge because you've got a great amount of knowledge in this space? What are the top three to five tips you would share with them?
Lisa (13:13.17)
The first thing I would say is reassurance. I think when you're told, when you hear the word prolapse, even if you don't have a prolapse, you automatically think, my gosh, my gosh, this is it, this is it. And I know I did and I knew what I knew, but I still had that freak out moment. And I was like, okay, but then telling the moms, telling your client that you understand it's okay, that you reassure them.
There are amazing steps that we can put in place here to make sure you're supported and to...
have to have just more awareness around what it could mean for you and then giving them the steps of what to do next, which would be to contact their local women's health physio, pelvic health physio, and then let them know also that if you're working with that client, if I'm working with that client, that it's a referral system. So would you be okay with myself sharing information about your journey and vice versa, just so we've got the best.
knowledge around you and your body. I think that one of the main things is to let them know that they're supported. Let them know that like, that we've got you, we're gonna get you some help. We don't know what this is yet because you it's out of my scope to know where you are. But if there was prolapse symptoms, I always err on the side of caution and just make sure, okay, let's get you checked what you could be looking for. And most of the time,
Jen Dugard (14:26.03)
Hmm.
Lisa (14:47.546)
moms and clients are super receptive and go yeah okay I'm going to be doing that and yeah go from there.
Jen Dugard (14:53.59)
Yeah, and what would some of the signs and symptoms of prolapse be that trainers that are working with mums or mums need to be aware of?
Lisa (15:03.242)
So thinking about, for me there was like a heaviness, there was a little bit of like a dragging feeling, a heaviness in my, like especially when I went a little bit higher on the treadmill and like I went a little bit faster, I was like, oh, that's a weird feeling. And look, because I was quite early post birth, perhaps there was some movement around there and that's what it could have been for me. But that was enough for me, that was enough for me to go, hey, hang on, that doesn't feel like what it normally feels when I'm walking on my treadmill or when I go a little bit faster.
Jen Dugard (15:09.688)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (15:32.732)
when I push a little harder. that kind of, that symptom, perhaps some leaking as well. And just not feeling quite right in pelvic floor, having that heaviness through pelvic floor. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (15:52.526)
Yeah, and then I guess if they actually feel anything bulging into the walls of the vagina or anything like that, then you know, probably a little bit further, further along. Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (15:56.882)
Oh yes, yes.
Yes, oh, 100%. 100%. Yes, absolutely. And sometimes that heaviness can feel like that could be happening as well. Like that to them because it's such a new feeling. It's okay if they've made that, if they've said that to me, I'm like, okay, let's get you in, let's get you checked and get that reassurance from your physio because they're going to be the best person to be able to help you with that. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (16:24.832)
Absolutely. And Lise, what were some of the top things that you integrated into your training so that you could keep training knowing that you had or you thought you had prolapse? So if you wanted to keep squatting or you wanted to, what techniques were you using?
Lisa (16:40.61)
I was using, I started with my breath work, really, really simple 360 breath work, making sure I was incorporating nice big movements, thinking about my diaphragm moving up and down. And I really, really slowed it down and took my time. I would start lying down because that felt comfortable for me. I mean, you can go sideline seated, whatever feels more comfortable. I started lying down because that's where I felt more supported and really focused on
connection through pelvic floor and TA before I would progress to another movement and then just trial things. It's like what we do in class, we trial, we test, if that doesn't feel right, then we back off again and we go from there. So I just did, I did that with myself.
Jen Dugard (17:26.594)
Yeah, it's cool isn't it when you're a trainer that works with mums. It's not cool that you go through these things, but it's cool that you get to experiment on yourself.
Lisa (17:34.93)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (17:37.122)
Yeah, yeah. I always like the, like, exhale on effort. You talked about diaphragm and I'm sure, like, when you're going through exercises, that's exactly what you'd be coaching. So it's like, you know, a lot of places they'll say, you know, if you're going into a squat, you're going to breathe in, you're going to breath hold, you're going to maintain that intra-abdominal pressure. Whereas when we work with our prolapse women, we want them to breathe out on effort and reduce intra-abdominal pressure so that they've got less to kind of cope with through.
pelvic floor and integrating that breath into everything can be super helpful.
Lisa (18:08.816)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Exhale and exertion always just like relaying that message throughout the classes, throughout my training as well. and just getting them used to, cause I find with the breath, although it's something we're doing every day, I've found that one of the hardest things for clients to get their head around when I'm breathing. So when I do exhale on that hardest part, that's when I want that lift, that nice lift. But a lot of the time,
Jen Dugard (18:30.082)
Hmm.
Lisa (18:37.968)
I see women, they'll go, the belly will come out on the exhale. And they're just like, that's so odd that I have to breathe in then. When I'm exhaling, I just thought everything would go out. It's just retraining. I've just always found that just so fascinating. And most of the times when I'm teaching like a foundations course, this will be like the trickiest thing for moms to get their head around is the breathing. So that's, yeah, yeah.
Jen Dugard (19:04.398)
And it's funny isn't it that we can get that so wrong because it makes so much sense that when you breathe in everything's going to expand and when it's like a balloon you you expand it and you contract it. Yeah, fascinating. But I do think in some spaces we are still teaching you know breathe in and hold your pelvic floor and hold everything on.
Lisa (19:10.866)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Lisa (19:25.477)
Hold.
Jen Dugard (19:29.484)
And then you've got that dichotomy of like, yeah, I want you to exhale on effort, but don't get so caught up with your breath that you don't now know how to move. It's like, it's okay to just breathe too. exactly. Yeah. Like if you're trying to lift a heavier and we're managing prolapse, then yes, let's make sure that we exhale on effort or you've got a weaker pelvic floor. And also it's okay to just move and breathe because that's what you're going to do in life. Yeah.
Lisa (19:35.826)
Don't get in your head, don't get too much in your head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa (19:51.868)
Yeah, subconsciously, that's the goal, right? And I say that, I yeah, this is a lot of information right now that I'm giving you, but the end goal is subconsciously, you're you're squatting with your dumbbell. You're squatting, that body is moving as it should be moving when you're lifting that load. And as you go along, it starts to make more sense and you can see it, like, you can see it when it clicks. They're like, they look at me like.
Jen Dugard (20:04.685)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lisa (20:14.034)
that it? I was like, that's it. You're just moving, you're lifting, you're supporting yourself from the inside out. It's an awesome process. I love it.
Jen Dugard (20:20.129)
Yep.
Very, very cool, nice. Lisa, talk to me then about your, so you've had a baby, you've moved into learning more about pre and postnatal exercise, you've done a course, where did the starting of your own business, or did you start your own business right from the get-go when you became a PT? Tell me about that.
Lisa (20:44.966)
Yeah, I dabbled. I dabbled in that first year because I did fall pregnant quite quickly between finishing my studies and having Luca and then going on maternity leave. So I kind of played around with what a business would look like in that little bit of a break that I had that time off with Luca. And then it really started with family and friends. Family, like they put their hand up and yeah.
write me program. Awesome. Like my mom has been my client from the start. Now she online trains with me. She's 70 and she's just doing so well. It's so good. Like it's just the best. She's just been so consistent over those years. And she's got like that strength to show for it. And like, yeah, it's great body awareness and yeah, it's, it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (21:24.75)
So good!
Jen Dugard (21:40.664)
Yeah.
Lisa (21:41.81)
So yeah, family and friends is where it started and then fell pregnant with my second bub and then... Where was I teaching then?
A little bit of online. I did online first, like an online program I was doing first and then moved into face-to-face at a leisure center near my house when Rem was like six months, taking to class with me. And yeah, it just started there. I think I had two people sign up to that and I was like, my gosh.
Awesome. And then it's just, yeah, that's where I first had my face to face classes. And from there, I did some outdoor bootcamp style training. Never quite took off, probably because I'm not really an outdoor bootcamp kind of person. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (22:37.198)
And it's a slog if you're not. Like I don't know if you're doing early mornings but man, like I remember being at Queen's Park in Sydney early in the morning and I'd be have like a pair of tights on and a pair of trackies on, two pairs of socks on, 700 jumpers because I just get cold. It's not a happy place, outdoor boot camp early in the morning. I don't think. For me, others love it.
Lisa (22:50.939)
Hahaha!
Lisa (22:56.21)
No, no, but any any time of the day, like I like I just did not. It was okay. It was just you know, I think it comes back to like understanding who I am as a person. I'm a bit of an introvert. I like small groups. And I think I have this idea of like, yeah, I'm gonna run like big boot camps on the on the oceanfront because how cool is that going to be? And that would be amazing. And I did a part I think I finished the course a boot camp course. I was like, well,
Jen Dugard (23:09.326)
Mm.
Lisa (23:24.05)
It's just not for me. It just doesn't suit my personality. Of course it's going to suit some other people, absolutely. But I just, had to tune into what was going to help me and serve me the best. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (23:37.036)
Yeah. So how did you give me a little bit of a, like we met, I want to say like four years ago.
Lisa (23:41.799)
Yeah.
Lisa (23:45.23)
It was pre-COVID. Yeah, because it was.
Jen Dugard (23:46.826)
Or longer, no it might have been longer. We met in person about four years ago.
Lisa (23:54.674)
20, I think it was 20, 20, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna say like, it was before COVID, I'm sure. And 2019 to 20, maybe, 21, yeah, around that time. Yeah, yeah.
Jen Dugard (23:55.053)
Was that imp-
But we've known of each other pre that.
Jen Dugard (24:07.832)
Yeah.
Yep. And, and your business was, was it back online or you were trying to build online programming?
Lisa (24:19.44)
Well, no, must have been just after because I built a mobile PT. That's where I went to next. I went to mobile PT after I attempted bootcamp. I did mobile PT and loved it. But the traveling got a lot in the end, but then also that's when COVID hit and I lost those face-to-face clients. think one, I think it was probably my mom.
Mum probably stayed online with me. But otherwise no one wanted online. And this is just before I was in Mum's safe. So I didn't even know how to handle that situation. I put emails out, gave options of what we could do, but everyone was just like, no, sorry. I'd rather face to face. So I'm going to have to say no, which is fine, right? That's how they train. But I lost the business that I started to build.
Jen Dugard (24:56.43)
interesting.
Jen Dugard (25:00.898)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (25:15.213)
Yeah.
Lisa (25:18.16)
overnight pretty much. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (25:20.524)
Yeah, I am. I just want to put a little side note in there that if anyone now doesn't have in their terms and conditions that if you're running a face to face business, if the world goes crazy again, we will be automatically switching to online and it's not an excuse to cancel your membership type situation. It's like this is how we are delivering if we cannot do this little top tip. If you've not got that in your T's C's now, you very much should be should have.
Lisa (25:28.082)
You
Lisa (25:37.254)
Yeah, 100%.
Jen Dugard (25:46.99)
Okay, so the business kind of disappears because the world goes into craziness. And then as you're, so you're, building your online program at that point during that time or because you, you you would, yeah, you had an online, well, you still got them, but your online programs.
Lisa (26:04.934)
Yeah, that's when I would have met you. Yeah, so I started building, like working on those evergreen products, working on how can I sort of keep my business viable? What do I need to do? So then took everything online and thought, okay, this is it, like I'll go online. And that's absolutely not as easy as it was made out to sound.
Jen Dugard (26:12.258)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (26:28.44)
Tell me about your experience.
Lisa (26:32.562)
Even though I had the training experience of face to face, when it comes to online, like you're opening yourself up to the whole world, right? It's not just where I lived anymore. It's like, you can sell courses in America or London or wherever you want to sell. It's like, my gosh, that sounds amazing. It's like, there are so many people out there and there are so many people doing the online thing that where do I sit in that market?
have I built trust with the people that want to buy the course off me? So there was so much more to it that looking back, I know now, but I didn't know then. So I think I probably went into a bit of a false reality of what this could look like and just trying to manage it. Honestly, like trying to not have to give up altogether. That was my goal. And although the online world didn't work out, and I have like bits and pieces now, but like it's...
Jen Dugard (27:04.419)
Hmm.
Jen Dugard (27:23.384)
Hmm.
Lisa (27:31.068)
how do I keep moving forward without having to just totally change careers? That was, that was, yeah, hard.
Jen Dugard (27:41.622)
Yeah, I want to acknowledge you sharing that for starters and we'll dig a little bit deeper. I also want to just, I guess, circle back and highlight what you said because I speak to a lot of trainers and they're like, yeah, I'm going to build this online product and it's going to be amazing. And it's like, you know what? It is going to be amazing. But how about we build you an audience and we build you a list before you even think about the product that you're building because you could spend the next six to 12 months creating a program.
Lisa (28:01.042)
Mm-hmm.
Jen Dugard (28:07.852)
and then have literally no one to sell it to. And I think, you I actually do think, Lace, that those programs that you've got, they're gonna come back into play at some point. But the journey that you've been on to, you know, take a step back, become locally famous, and then, you know, we call it beyond locally famous when you've put all the layers in place and you've got a solid face-to-face business. Obviously different if you're not ever gonna run it.
Lisa (28:16.914)
Mm-hmm.
Jen Dugard (28:36.022)
a local service-based business and people can very much, it's just a little bit harder to get that recognition when you go to the whole world instead of going to your suburb and the surrounding 10 to 20 Ks depending on how far people will travel. I remember, I don't know if we were talking in person or whether we were backwards and forwards in voice notes, I actually feel like we might've been talking in person and I was walking, when I was living in Sydney, I was walking down the road.
Lisa (28:41.874)
Thanks
Lisa (28:46.898)
Mm-hmm.
Jen Dugard (29:06.03)
And I just remember, I don't know if you can remember that phone call where you were just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. This is where I'm at. Tell us about your recollection of that moment.
Lisa (29:11.58)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (29:17.34)
Yeah, so that was when I think I'd had another launch of a product and it didn't work out. And we checked, you checked in with me and then we had, we spoke again that week and.
Lisa (29:34.844)
think it was, part of me had that hesitation, right, of going back into face-to-face because it got taken away from me. So I was scared. I was scared to go back to face-to-face, putting myself out there again in the community to then have it all taken away again. but speaking to you, like, just gave me that reassurance that, you know, you've got to work on becoming locally famous, you know.
Jen Dugard (29:43.406)
Hmm.
Lisa (30:02.032)
get your flyers out there. Like all those like, so if I'm going to say old school, like flyers, like, but you know, that's...
doing those little things I'm like right okay I can do this I can do this again and having that conversation with me just made me realize like that's what I need to be doing because those people online don't know me and I work up against so many other people that if I get back into the community and put myself out there again which for me again with my personality can sometimes be a little bit hard.
to push that boundary, but I knew again, in the back of my head, I don't want to lose this. I don't want to give up. And this is now going to be the road that I'll take.
Jen Dugard (30:45.059)
Hmm.
Lisa (30:49.606)
Yeah, I remember it well.
Jen Dugard (30:52.302)
Well done.
Well done for doing that because a lot of people get to that point and they're like, fuck, it's so hard. And I've already done the face-to-face, it's gone away. I've tried the online, it's not working. But credit to the impact that you want to make in the world and the passion that you have for doing what you do to keep picking yourself up. I say this a lot, it's not the best people, even though I truly believe that you are one of the best.
Lisa (31:01.49)
It's so hot!
Lisa (31:07.186)
You
Jen Dugard (31:22.702)
It's not the people that are smartest or the fastest or any of that, but it's those people that every single time they get knocked down, they pick themselves up again. That ultimately stay the course and build, I'm gonna say the dream, but the vision or the business that they wanna create. And so many people give up too soon and it's so sad. And I get why people do, because they're...
Lisa (31:48.946)
Like, yeah, yeah, so do I. It's not easy, right?
Jen Dugard (31:53.516)
Yeah, not easy at all. It's almost like you've to be so, what's the word? I don't want to say single minded, but you've got to have the blinkers on and it's like, this is my goal. This is where I'm going. I'm open to the way that I'm going to get there, which again, credit to you. You were like, this is where I want to go. This hasn't worked. This hasn't worked. I'm going to do this. And then there's been a of little things that haven't worked along the way and a lot of tweaks and things like that.
But Lise, tell me about some of the, you know, we've talked about flyering. Tell me about some of the other things that you did initially in the early days. And we talk about laying the layers so you can talk about the layers and then have they be like, they've become part of the infrastructure of your business, I guess now.
Lisa (32:42.738)
Yes, yeah, yeah, for sure.
And with like, it is the flyers. Like that was probably the one thing I went and took around the most. But then I was taking flyers around, was like, oh, you know what? I'm just gonna be brave and I'm gonna call the Women's Health Center and just say, can I bring some of my flyers down? Cause I'm not the person that's just gonna go knock on the door and be like, hi. I'm like, I'm gonna call them first, make sure it's okay. That's just.
Jen Dugard (33:13.902)
on the jar.
Lisa (33:19.026)
Yeah, we all did. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah. So that's what I did. And she's like, Oh my gosh, of course. Come, come, come bring them down now. And I was like, Oh, really? She's like, were you not expecting me to say that? And I was like, well, I didn't know. She's like, bring them down. And I took them in there. And that was probably three years ago. Three and a half. Yeah, three, three years ago, would say. And that that for me was
Jen Dugard (33:19.118)
I love it. We all do different things and it's beautiful. Yeah.
Lisa (33:47.952)
I actually didn't realize at the time such an opening into the community and working with women in the community. And that was kind of the starting point for me of really getting myself back out there because Ron to the lady that ran it that still runs it was so open to having someone come in because a lot of the classes and courses that taught there were taught there were probably aimed more
to the older generation. So she said, well, how amazing we can have someone come here and talk to moms and about, you know, exercise. And she's like, I wish this was around when I had my babies and my kids and dad. So she was so receptive. And I think if I didn't make that call and I didn't just start putting myself out there, then I wouldn't, I wouldn't have those layers in place to what I have now. And yeah, that was, that was one of the first steps to, getting back out in the community. Like really.
really giving you the go.
Jen Dugard (34:50.392)
Yeah, and how's it been? Like we're talking, what, three years ago? I remember you kind of getting to the point where it's like things are building up and then you decide to have another baby. So it's like, fuck, not that, not fuck that you're having another baby, but.
Lisa (34:50.705)
Yeah.
Lisa (35:00.786)
I know, I was just gonna say, oh fuck. What has she done? Here we go.
Jen Dugard (35:07.47)
I mean it's great, it's great and I'm you know...
Lisa (35:10.612)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I he's here. So, you know, it's great. But you know, it did put me back again. It did put me, I had time off work and I had to change. I suppose like, you know, I did come back earlier with I think I came back, Jimmy was three months when I came back to work at the Women's Health Center. And also I was doing a couple of
Jen Dugard (35:22.062)
Mm.
Lisa (35:43.378)
I was doing one mobile PT client again, and I was also taking some classes out of, we've just renovated, so I had like an old garage before. So some clients were starting to come there and those clients were super understanding that I'd have to have some time off after Jimmy. But it also made me think, I can't take six months. I'll go back after three because I've started to build something here and I need to it rolling. yeah, kind of.
Jen Dugard (36:06.382)
Mm.
Lisa (36:12.594)
went backwards in some ways again to then start again. But, guess what it is?
Jen Dugard (36:21.262)
And what are the benefits? I know that moving slow can feel really frustrating. Well, it was frustrating for you at times and it can feel frustrating for others. But what are some of the benefits in hindsight that you can think of that have helped make it easier as it's gotten busier?
Lisa (36:25.468)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%.
Lisa (36:45.306)
lessons learnt. There's been plenty of lessons along the way that of how I do things, how I communicate, how I run things. I think as well like confidence comes into play because when you do get knocked down a few times and it doesn't go how you expect it to go, your confidence gets knocked. So you think, shit, what am I doing? Like, can I actually do this? But then you start again and you go, okay, that's right, this happened last time. So I'm going to do this now.
Jen Dugard (37:07.438)
Mm.
Lisa (37:14.502)
I'm going to make sure this is in place because last time I didn't have that on my form, but now I need that on my form. Like pre-exercise, like those sorts of things. They sound little, but they're all the steps that I put in place to now know to build that kind of strong, it's like retained exercise, right? Like you start small, build those strong foundations, and then you've got that great base to go wherever you want to go.
Jen Dugard (37:42.062)
Tell me more about confidence for you.
Lisa (37:45.382)
Well, I think that was my word, not this year, the year before.
Lisa (37:56.823)
I think it's one of the hardest things I've had to work on is confidence.
I think, my gosh, like at your six I got an award for like the Quiet Achiever and like I feel like I've held on to...
Jen Dugard (38:14.53)
Oh my god, like sorry. I mean I know that schools think that that's a compliment right? But that's like we're just gonna give you a label and good luck living out of that when you're 35. Like you're gonna hold on to that for the rest of your life and you're gonna probably have to go to therapy because we labeled you the quiet fucking achiever.
Lisa (38:25.042)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah.
Lisa (38:36.496)
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, I know and I held on. I held on to that for so long in my life. So confidence for me and to feel confident in my actions and what I do has taken a really long time. Like when I say that was my word last year, that was when I was ready to like take it like face on.
Jen Dugard (38:42.99)
Sorry, carry on. That's annoying. Really annoying.
Lisa (39:05.306)
and go Lisa, like you deserve to be here. Like you deserve to be doing these things that you're doing. You've worked hard without like, is that really like, I can't say that about myself. I can't say I'm like, I'm doing well. Like how embarrassing. But it's like a battle. It's a battle of like letting yourself just be in it and go, you know what? Like I said, like I deserve, I deserve to have this. Like I've worked hard. So I think putting that word forefront for that whole year.
That voice is not there as much. Like I can say the Quiet Achiever Award without like getting upset. Like, without crying, basically. Sorry, sorry Jen. I can still see it. I can still see the award, the gold award with Quiet Achiever. Anyway, I've let it go. I'm sure I've let it go. But yeah.
Jen Dugard (39:39.534)
you
Jen Dugard (39:44.64)
That's it.
Primis anyway.
Jen Dugard (39:57.774)
Do you live where you used to go to school or did you move? Like where did you go to school?
Lisa (40:00.848)
No, so I grew up in Ballina
Jen Dugard (40:05.336)
We need to go back to that school and just be like, doomed.
Lisa (40:08.818)
What was this about?
Jen Dugard (40:12.526)
Hey, I can come and do a speech at your awards night and talk about why, how the choir achieved it. Yeah, anyway.
Lisa (40:19.152)
Yeah, yeah. So I think honestly, I know that sounds crazy, right, that I've held on to that for so long. But that's that that that is like through me and I think
Jen Dugard (40:23.808)
It doesn't. Not at all.
Lisa (40:31.206)
Yeah, it definitely, definitely played a part in how long it took me to get myself out there. And plus I'm a bit of an introvert, right? Like that's just who I am. Like I'm not loud. I don't want to label myself like that as well, but like that's my personality. That's where I feel comfortable. Yes, I'll step out of my comfort zone more now, but at my core, that's kind of who I am. So it was working with...
Jen Dugard (40:37.976)
Mm.
Lisa (41:00.092)
How do I stay true to who I am, but build on that confidence and step out into the community more and yeah, be okay with putting myself out there. It's probably like the hardest thing, one of the hardest things I've had to do in my business. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (41:20.652)
What are some of the things that have helped you to do that, Lise?
Lisa (41:23.602)
or you, you being around you and the mum, it's getting me bit teary actually, and the MumSafe team, because you're around so many other like-minded trainers and when you put yourself out there or you want to try something new, the support that you get inside of there and from yourself is just second to none on
on building, building you up and letting you know that it's okay. It's also okay if it doesn't go to plan, but have you tried it and have you given it a go? I've got a super supportive family. My husband's really supportive. He's been with me the whole time as well, which you know, is really lovely. I've got, yeah, supportive family as well, which has helped. But yeah, I wouldn't be here without you and without the MumSafe team. And that's...
That's just the truth of it.
Jen Dugard (42:26.35)
Now I get to get all teary.
Lisa (42:27.836)
Sorry.
Jen Dugard (42:31.884)
What I will say to you though is, and it's like people say all the time, know, being part of the team and it's like, yeah, being part of the team and being part of a team doesn't work unless you show up within that team. And I look at it all the time and like, this person is doing fucking amazing and this person doesn't think it's working. it's, but this person is trying something and getting up again and turning up to a call and
trying something different and being open to feedback and this person, either they've turned up to one call and then dipped out because something's not working or they're just not engaging and I know that there's a lot of different reasons for not engaging and that kind of thing but what I can say about you is you consistently show up. You you show up on the bad days, you show up on the good days and you show up for other people.
And it's again, going back to consistency like time and time and time again. And confidence, it's resilience as a muscle, confidence as a muscle. you don't get that some people are just born, well, they're born outwardly appearing confident, but when we peel back the layers, a lot of those people are really not confident and they're just showing up in a way that's more of a defensive, you know, a defense system. Yeah.
Lisa (43:43.122)
Yeah.
Lisa (43:52.37)
It's gonna work for them. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (43:56.46)
And I think we build confidence over time. So, I mean, I actually like absolutely love that I and we have been able to be here for you, but don't think for a second that you didn't do all of that for yourself. All of it. Yeah.
Lisa (44:11.568)
You
Jen Dugard (44:14.254)
Yeah. I've got a couple more questions. you know, things are, like we said at the start, things are not as hard as they were at the moment. Who knows what's around the corner, but we're going to roll with this. But one of the things that you said, one of the things that I heard you say at the beginning and what you shared about what you're working on is with more work comes more demand on your time. How are you managing work and children and or are you just not like what is going on?
Lisa (44:36.85)
You
Lisa (44:43.634)
yeah, it's, it's, it's day by day. and I feel like I need to get some like, what about, I'm not a great like planner. Like I just, I've always just kind of just done things and it's all, you know, bits and pieces and there's a bit of a block there probably, but like, need to, manage my time better, especially. So Jim goes to daycare three days a week.
And the kids are at school, the big kids are at school, but school hours are so short and I've got to try and fit in like training clients, doing some admin work, eating. Yeah, so annoying, just getting my way lunch.
Jen Dugard (45:24.974)
80. So annoying.
Lisa (45:33.394)
you know, like, it's like, that's what it comes down to. It's like, do I have, no, do I have, what do I do now? And then I'm like, I I feel like at the moment, I'm
Jen Dugard (45:38.094)
Mmm.
Lisa (45:43.57)
not using my time as well as I could be. I'm doing a bit of work at night which is fine. I've got it at mind like that's kind of where I'm at at the moment. But my mind's not switching off at night. Just then I'm like oh my gosh I forgot to do that today. Oh my gosh I'll just go do that. Oh my gosh. So yeah that's kind of where I'm at with time management.
Jen Dugard (45:56.962)
Hmm.
Jen Dugard (46:07.702)
Yeah, are you utilizing both Perfect Week and then the projects?
Lisa (46:14.384)
Not as I probably should be. Mmm. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Jen Dugard (46:16.29)
Hmm, well could be not should be like there's no short But just for like so like this for you It might be a good time to go back because your perfect week has changed or your week has changed So how can I turn this into my perfect week? you know, might take a few weeks to actually get there, but if you know what the vision is And then back to those projects that I live by this and I've been doing it for years It's like three projects five action points under each project and then I have a like a
Lisa (46:27.122)
Yes, 100 % it has changed.
Lisa (46:35.399)
Yeah.
Lisa (46:41.223)
yes, yeah, yeah. Yep.
Jen Dugard (46:46.04)
these are stupid annoying things that I need to do and then these are the emails that I need to send. And then really identifying your most productive times and making sure that those times within your perfect week are spent on your projects. And just recheck in with that. Yeah.
Lisa (47:01.606)
Yes, that would be helpful. I need to see it in front of me and just have everything written down because that's where I'm sort of forgetting to write back to that email or to do that thing.
Jen Dugard (47:07.309)
Mmm
Jen Dugard (47:13.221)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa (47:14.384)
and working out what prioritizes, like what comes first? Does that text message come first? that come like, I've got a program. I've got to get that. So I'm just.
Jen Dugard (47:20.119)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (47:25.1)
Yeah, and then starting to think about, because what I'm imagining is you want to get busier. So then going back into when I say busier, I don't mean busier. I mean, we want to grow the business in alignment with the way that you want to feel. So the reason I retracted the word busier is because I'm imagining you don't want to feel busy. Who does? But so how many more face to face sessions like
Lisa (47:30.342)
Yeah.
Lisa (47:36.506)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Lisa (47:44.658)
No.
Jen Dugard (47:53.218)
where do you go in creating that vision and that plan in alignment with your values? What are your two values?
Jen Dugard (48:02.767)
my goodness, no I don't do this, go.
Lisa (48:03.57)
I know, I know. Go.
Jen Dugard (48:07.586)
She's forgotten her value. We'll come back later. That's okay. It's okay. So that's just part of something to do over. You'll have them written down. I have no doubt you'll go back to them. now I have, but now's a really good time to anchor back in with those two values because your business is growing and it's very easy when your business is growing to then create a business that your life has to fit around.
Lisa (48:10.619)
I'm tired.
Lisa (48:18.086)
Yeah, just forget it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've caught me.
Jen Dugard (48:36.866)
Whereas if you anchor back into those values, then you'll always stay on track and build a business that feels good. So that's super, super important.
Lisa (48:40.338)
Yes.
Lisa (48:45.97)
Yeah, that's what I feel, yeah, will help. I'm up here, but I need to just like, that's exactly what I, yeah, I just need to go back to those basics again, reset instead of, instead of being up here and going, oh my gosh. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (48:49.495)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (48:55.254)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (49:01.324)
Yeah, yeah, and it's amazing how good you can feel when your list to-do list isn't too big because you've only got three projects, five actions under each project. It's still a lot. 15 things to do in a week is still a lot and sometimes making that smaller. But when you're actually ticking those things off. Lacey, you said confidence was a thing, yet...
You shared with me at the start of this call that you've now got some paid speaking gigs. Like, what is... how did that come about?
Lisa (49:33.394)
So that was with the Women's Health Centre that I mentioned that I started out a few years ago. And they have a couple of centres on the coast where I am. And one of the programmes they were running was for young pregnant women and understanding how exercise can support you throughout pregnancy, perhaps looking at... It always sort of flows right into postpartum as well, even though the talk was directed for young pregnant girls.
Jen Dugard (49:37.091)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (50:03.278)
it also led into what we'd be looking for after after pregnancy postpartum. So I did that talk last month. I went to centre just bit north of me about 40 minutes away and did a talk and yeah it went really well. It went really well like the girls were amazing they had like some really great questions and it was I just went in with
that's right. I was feeling really good. And then when I see like, when I see it, sometimes someone else presenting or presenting in a different way to what I would, which is what happened. I was like, my gosh. my gosh. What am I doing here? What am doing here? Like this is, can I run? No, don't run. Just act cool. Just like, yep, smiling. Like just, just.
Jen Dugard (50:47.886)
you
Lisa (51:01.378)
That's what happened. I saw the end of talk in front of me. I'm like, my gosh, it's fine, Lace. like you didn't bring slides. That's okay. You've got handouts. You've got bands. You're going to do some exercises. You'll do things differently. That's what I'm telling myself as I'm trying to listen. So I was fine until that moment. And then once I got up, I just took my deep breaths and just remembered about what makes me happy. And that's teaching and helping.
And if I can do that today, then that's a win. And there was one mom, young mom in particular that had some amazing questions. And so I think that for me just anchored me in that moment as well. Like just go, okay, I can do this. And super glad I did. And now I've got two more speaking at the same type of topic in June and July. So.
Jen Dugard (51:47.022)
Mm.
Lisa (51:59.632)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (52:01.1)
Amazing. Well done. And two things for you, two thoughts to offer. Who needs death by PowerPoint anyway? So well done. And in a lot of instances, it's actually braver to get up without the PowerPoint because a lot of people hide behind the PowerPoint. So if you're speaking to a seasoned presenter who's used to having PowerPoint, the thought of getting up without it would just be like absolutely mind blowing.
Lisa (52:08.85)
Thanks.
Lisa (52:21.681)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (52:31.018)
I relate to your experience though. took me a really long time to do PowerPoint. So was like, I just got to think about what I'm saying, let alone like a thing. Like I can't do that as well. But what it does mean, what it does mean though is when you've got a pause in what you're saying, like all eyes are on you. So the fact that you can cope with that, it's not like you're turning around and keep the PowerPoint and you know, whatever. It's like, we're just waiting for you to speak and we're to look at you until you speak.
Lisa (52:37.074)
Yeah, like, eww, eww.
It's too much!
Lisa (52:49.883)
Yeah.
Lisa (52:57.894)
Yeah. Say something.
Jen Dugard (53:01.582)
Well done, well done. And the fact that they're paid is awesome. I still think that there's a lot of room for us to go in the fitness industry and beyond in making sure that people are paid for their time and their experience. I battle it every single day. And every time I say yes to a speaking opportunity that's not paid, I'm like, I'm just fucking it up for the people that are coming. And also,
Lisa (53:03.25)
Thanks, thank you.
Jen Dugard (53:29.494)
Sometimes it yeah, anyway, it's just a head fuck every time it comes up, but yeah Absolutely
Lisa (53:31.494)
It's yeah, it is. It's hard. You want to help, right? You want to like, yeah, I want to my time because like, this is so this is so beneficial. But at the same time, I've got to run a business and I've got a family to support and I can't just be doing yeah, so there's always that.
Jen Dugard (53:42.275)
Yeah.
There's always about the value balance, isn't there? Are you gonna let me pitch? Are you gonna let me send an email? Are you gonna give me the peoples or are you gonna pay me? Lisa, I've got a couple of questions to wrap us up. What do you stand for?
Lisa (53:47.366)
Yeah.
Lisa (54:03.57)
I stand for building a community to support mums wherever they are in that journey, whether that's in that prenatal stage or in that postpartum stage. My mission is just to make sure they are supported, they're heard, and it's so much more than just, not just, it's so much more than exercise and movement.
Jen Dugard (54:26.663)
Get rid of the just word and say it again.
Lisa (54:27.826)
I know, I know, know. took it out as soon as I said it. was like, no, it's more than exercise. It is building a supportive community for moms and women to come along to and know that yes, they can move their body, but how are they feeling mentally that day? Where do we need to meet you at? And I just stand for having that community.
around me and building that for the moms in the area. It's just, and the more, the more I'm in here and the more I'm doing this, the more I'm like, shit, this is just like the best.
Jen Dugard (54:57.672)
Mm. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (55:06.732)
Yeah, I love it. love it. And what would you say to someone who is, they're either a trainer or they're aspiring to become a trainer. They know that women and mums is their passion and they, you know, when you're talking about what you stand for, they're like, yeah, that's me. But they're three, four, five years behind you and they're lacking confidence. What would you share with that person?
Lisa (55:33.17)
Lisa (55:37.394)
Checking in with where you're at and being okay with where you're at now, because sometimes I can future trip, right? I'm not where I want to be right now. So then that again will come on top and be like, I don't deserve to be here. But doing your best to be okay with where you're at and what steps do I need to put in place to get there one day? It's okay that I'm not there now because I'm four or five years behind you.
and you had to do all that work in between. So that's going to be part of your process. Obviously making sure you're qualified and pre and postnatal. If that's the road you want to be going to. Let's make sure that you've got that certification as well. yeah, trusting that if you want to put the work in and if that's really where you want to be, it's not going to
Jen Dugard (56:17.976)
That's a good idea. Yeah.
Lisa (56:35.056)
be easy every day and you may go back a bit but then you can go forward again and those little steps will build confidence along the way.
Jen Dugard (56:46.222)
Hmm, fantastic. Thank you so much for spending time with me and with us, to everyone that's listening. Again, I wanna thank you for choosing to be part of this journey with me, with the Mumsafe team. It isn't always easy, but it's always worth it. And I am thankful every day that I get to work with amazing humans like yourself. So, thank you.
Lisa (56:51.964)
Pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Lisa (57:05.03)
percent.
Lisa (57:10.546)
Yeah, me too, Jen. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being you and being such a legend. Yeah, yeah. All right. You too. Bye. Bye.
Jen Dugard (57:16.354)
I love it. Thanks, Lace. Have a beautiful day. I'll see you soon. Take care. Bye.
Thanks.
