Jen Dugard (00:01.582)
Karen, we're gonna kick off by you sharing a word as to how you're showing up this morning.
Caren Van Gastel (00:10.137)
I'm going say stressed, a little stressed today. Yep.
Jen Dugard (00:12.11)
stress. Yep. Yep. And there's a bit of backstory hey around just getting here and life.
Caren Van Gastel (00:19.661)
Yes, that's right.
Jen Dugard (00:20.866)
Yeah, yeah, cool. Okay, so before we jumped on, you sent through your mentor session what you wanna get out of today. So what I've got written down, and you can correct me if there's anything more. So I've got a clear prolapse offering, clarity around PT sessions, and then social media strategy to support the above, and a clear plan and steps to accomplish the above.
Caren Van Gastel (00:32.237)
Yes.
Jen Dugard (00:48.314)
because you're currently feeling a little bit lost. Do wanna give me a little bit more context around how you're feeling, where your business is at right now, and then we can start to dig into these three touch points.
Caren Van Gastel (01:00.855)
Yeah. Yeah. So at the moment I've got two Mums and Bubs classes a week and two classes in my local community, which are for women, but not specifically Mums and Bubs. And then I have two online clients at the moment and two PT clients. So that's where I'm at. And what I would like, I would like a little bit more consistency. I don't want to lose my Mums and Bubs classes or my local ones because I just love doing them.
and but the PT thing I've never I've never done a lot of PT before so getting my head around packages or the best way to run PT sessions and things like that like I've tried different things but I just feel like it's probably not as streamlined or as easy as it could be.
And then, and I don't have a space for that at the moment, so I'm going into people's homes and doing it, but I've been in talks with a space, but it's just about working out the costs and being confident that when I say yes to that, that I'm going to be able to fill those spaces. And, and then the prolapse, I guess, is my big passion, helping moms with prolapse. And I see that as it doesn't have to be in person.
Jen Dugard (02:12.012)
Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (02:20.537)
Especially for the mums that live more rurally or outside the bigger cities in New Zealand I want to be able to still support them with a better understanding about how to work with prolapse, how to manage it and how to still stay active. yeah, that's my bigger picture. I want that space to grow more I think but I feel like it's very overwhelming.
in how to get there.
Jen Dugard (02:53.665)
Okay. And if we're talking about, so, you know, we want to potentially get the business to a certain financial point. Do you know what that point is?
Caren Van Gastel (03:06.819)
So I have done some rough calculations and I think for me to be comfortable like covering all my expenses I'm looking at 700 a week. However that's 700 a week just covering everything so that's not paying me and that's not thinking about taxes either. that yeah.
Jen Dugard (03:28.909)
Okay, so the year 700 a week, let's just clarify this, 700 a week is to cover the business expenses or your life expenses as well.
Caren Van Gastel (03:38.329)
No, life and business expenses. 200, I think 200 at the moment, my business expenses work out to be around to just under 200 a week.
Jen Dugard (03:41.857)
Okay.
Jen Dugard (03:54.999)
and then your life, you're saying is 500.
Caren Van Gastel (03:57.784)
And then life. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (04:05.633)
Okay. So I think the first clarification that would be really beneficial to make is not bundling that together because they're not together. Yeah. So we need business in one column and one bank account, and then the business pays your life in the other bank account. Yep. So really clarifying, you know, where the money's coming in, how much money is coming in, how much money is going to expenses. Have you done your financial spreadsheet?
Caren Van Gastel (04:13.847)
Right. Yeah, okay. Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (04:20.921)
Mm-hmm.
Caren Van Gastel (04:35.993)
I did, yeah, about two weeks ago. I don't think I actually finished it. No, only a couple weeks ago after our last progress call. Mum, save one. yeah, I think life got in the way last week and I haven't finished it.
Jen Dugard (04:40.001)
A while ago? Yeah, cool. Okay.
Jen Dugard (04:47.243)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (04:56.233)
okay I think so the the number one and obviously we're not going to be able to we could sit and spend the whole session doing your financial spreadsheet but let's put that as a number one thing for you to you know you're gonna have a bunch of actions off the back of today's chat so what what and I heard you say you know that's that's not taken into consideration taxes and GST and I mean maybe not GST but all of that kind of thing so what we want to do is get you to a point where
Caren Van Gastel (05:04.814)
Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (05:10.723)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (05:25.835)
You very much understand you've got your business expenses. You've got the money coming in. Then from the money coming in, you're funneling the money coming in into one account that's got your weekly expenses in. So long as you've also calculated into that your annual expenses. So those annual expenses divide them by 52 and put them into that. So making sure you're putting that $200 a week out of that top line income into a bucket.
Caren Van Gastel (05:45.443)
Yeah, I have. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (05:54.957)
Pre that, you need to move your tax out of, because you're operating as a sole trader at the moment, right?
Caren Van Gastel (06:03.117)
Yeah, that's right.
Jen Dugard (06:04.075)
Yeah. So pre moving those expenses, you need to move your tax. So whatever that tax percentage is for you in New Zealand, go and look for, look what that is. Move that money immediately. Then in an ideal world as well, you're moving 10 % out for superannuation. I don't know. Yep. How does that work in? Yeah. Yeah. Same thing.
Caren Van Gastel (06:12.781)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (06:24.077)
Yeah. yeah. It's KiwiSaver over here. It's KiwiSaver over here. I have incorporated that in my business expenses.
Jen Dugard (06:33.549)
Okay, cool, so you've got, okay, so.
Caren Van Gastel (06:35.161)
because I'm putting stuff aside each month.
Jen Dugard (06:39.679)
Awesome. So putting that into KiwiSaver and then ideally you're taking another kind of 10 % out on top of that to put into your own personal investments or something along those lines. So, and that just starts to set us up. We have that superannuation that no one does or KiwiSaver that no one in the fitness industry does unless someone says reminds them to do it. Then we've got the my own
Caren Van Gastel (06:59.769)
Yep.
Jen Dugard (07:06.477)
investments or just another pocket of money that starts to grow. I put all mine into Vanguard. I'm not a financial expert, so go obviously get advice on that. But Vanguard is a very easy way of putting extra money in and then getting that compounding effect over time. So that coming out and then we go, okay, well of the remainder, how much are we paying ourselves? And what I'm hearing you say is you want to pay yourself
$500 a week at the moment.
Caren Van Gastel (07:41.421)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (07:42.998)
Is that enough?
Caren Van Gastel (07:46.362)
No, I would say that was just a rough, like I've gone through all, you know, house living expenses and that's like, yeah, just a rough figure. But ideally I want more than that. That'd be like me just getting by if you know what I mean.
Jen Dugard (08:02.38)
Okay.
Yeah, I wish I was living on 500 bucks a week. Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (08:06.913)
It doesn't really allow for, if anything, I haven't. Doesn't really... Actually, no, that does... Now I'm thinking, maybe I've got that wrong, but I'm... It's on my phone and my son's got my phone.
Jen Dugard (08:13.249)
I think that's our shopping bill.
Jen Dugard (08:19.085)
It's very low. Like I just want to clarify that that like I don't know if you're paying a mortgage or rent or... Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (08:32.537)
I'll have to... Yeah.
Jen Dugard (08:33.029)
I guess it, I mean, it does matter about that number because we want to backtrack. So the reason I'm trying to get at this number is when we're talking about, you your mums and bums and your Peter and your groups and bringing it all together, like the most important thing is to understand what life costs and to understand the best possible way to get out of any pain and make sure that we are operating from that safety, a place of safety. So if it's 500,
Caren Van Gastel (08:43.095)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (08:54.969)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (09:01.037)
bucks awesome, if it's $1,500, cool. You know, it wouldn't surprise me if it was upwards of $2,000 that you actually, and I hate the word need, but like 500 is very, very low to be paying either rent or a mortgage, shopping. I don't know what you pay for kids at school or kids activities. And I know there's potentially like split, split costs going on. But if we start to understand that figure, yeah. Yes, please.
Caren Van Gastel (09:08.493)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (09:15.331)
That's true.
Caren Van Gastel (09:20.173)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (09:26.573)
Can I go grab my phone? Yeah, I'll go get it and then that'll help. Thank you.
Jen Dugard (09:31.041)
Yeah, yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (09:52.098)
Okay, sorry, I was doing it in my notes app last night when I could not sleep.
And then I already have the business stuff in my diary written down and I was trying to...
Caren Van Gastel (10:12.089)
Okay, yeah, so it is... Yep, it's $500. But that does not include rent. But at the moment I'm not paying rent. I mean, guess it's a potential thing that might come up. Yep.
Jen Dugard (10:26.221)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so let's base it on $500 because the...
Caren Van Gastel (10:31.437)
So I'm happy to work on double that, if you know what I mean.
Jen Dugard (10:35.373)
Okay, yep, so work on $1,000 a week after expenses and after tax. So what we need to do and potentially not right now is go $1,000 plus, you know, plus your tax, plus your super that we just talked about, plus your 10 %...
Caren Van Gastel (10:38.648)
Yep.
Jen Dugard (10:58.573)
that we're going to save and invest. then obviously we want, need to then earn an extra $200 on top of that for your business expenses. So plus $200. So let's say, let's go 1200. Let's, let's just base our income on let's go $1,500 a week. Top line.
Jen Dugard (11:23.661)
and then go from there. And obviously it's for you to do the math later on just to make sure that that is all set in stone. So then we look back to your products and services and offerings and we look at your opportunities to exercise and all that kind of thing. tell me a little bit about, so you've got two mums and bubs groups going. What is the capacity and how much are they paying?
Caren Van Gastel (11:50.841)
Class 10, Class 10, they're paying 21 a term, oh, 21 a class.
Jen Dugard (11:57.645)
Yep. So that's $210 if you're operating at capacity for one class times that by two, we've got $420 for those two classes. Tell me about your groups, your local groups.
Caren Van Gastel (12:13.881)
The local one, so, so term one and term four, I'm doing two classes a week, so Monday and Wednesdays, so the opportunity to exercise is 20. And then during term, like the winter term, so it's only one class a week.
Jen Dugard (12:30.477)
Okay, let's base on two for now and then we need to look at when we get to winter, do I need to do extra PT? Do I need to do extra something else to fill that gap? Or be building so that when you get to winter next time, you don't cut that class. So you can go either way with that. So how much do they pay?
Caren Van Gastel (12:38.614)
usual.
Caren Van Gastel (12:51.385)
$10.
Jen Dugard (12:53.601)
Why?
Caren Van Gastel (12:55.929)
Well, yeah, that's a good question. It's been $10 since I started, but I've been doing it. Oh my goodness. So many years now and I probably should put it up, but I feel bad putting it up because, well, I think part of me thinks it's just, you know, a local community thing and
Jen Dugard (13:07.777)
Why do you feel bad?
Caren Van Gastel (13:20.889)
I just want it easy for people to access so they're not having to... yeah I don't know I probably should put it up like I think about this all the time and over the years I've done way more education than when I first started so it makes sense to put that one up.
Jen Dugard (13:36.711)
And life has gone up for everyone involved. Yes, their life has gone up, but also has yours. So let's say, let's just hypothetically speaking. So at the moment they're paying, so you can potentially earn $200 total.
Caren Van Gastel (13:42.763)
Yeah, true.
Jen Dugard (13:54.125)
Is it $200 total? No. Yeah, $200 total for those two classes, whereas for your mums and bums, you're earning $420 because it's double the cost. So what would you feel comfortable, this is an action, this is gonna get done, what would you feel comfortable putting your prices up to?
Caren Van Gastel (14:04.409)
Mm.
Caren Van Gastel (14:13.197)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (14:17.694)
I don't know. like.
Ideally probably at least 15 but then I feel like that's a huge jump.
Jen Dugard (14:30.253)
No, it's not. In my brain it was minimum 15. You know, could push it. Even 16, 17 makes you go. And I don't understand, to be honest, why it's less than your mums and bums. Just to be.
Caren Van Gastel (14:34.989)
Right, okay.
Caren Van Gastel (14:44.119)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (14:45.343)
You don't have any less knowledge. I understand what you're saying about it's a local community group, but...
Caren Van Gastel (14:47.129)
And no, that's true. Expense wise, it's a lot less for me. So the rent is, you know, minimal. it's like it's at the school. It's just a dough. I make a donation to the school every year and it's no travel time for me. It's literally two minutes walk from my home. Do you know what I mean? So I, you know, I just kind of bad charging more.
or the same as Mums and Bubs when I'm, yeah, I don't have those extra things involved, costs involved.
Jen Dugard (15:25.549)
hearing what you're saying and I appreciate it and let's stick at 15 for now because it's a move in the right direction but it's not making you completely uncomfortable and yeah and there are less costs. I still don't you know on one hand it's like it's still you it's your time it's your energy it's your expertise and taking into consideration all the other things and it probably would be a big jump for them to go straight from 10 to 20 but if we take them to 15 all of a sudden we're now earning
Caren Van Gastel (15:43.853)
Yeah, that's true.
Caren Van Gastel (15:50.702)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (15:53.889)
you're earning $300, so we've just found an extra $100 a week, simply by increasing the price of that class by $5 a session. Yeah, so that's action number two, is increase your price. Now, there is a letter or a series of letters in your Mumsafe portal that are price rise letter templates.
Caren Van Gastel (15:59.086)
Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (16:17.271)
so you can pull them if it's helpful.
Jen Dugard (16:23.341)
Okay, now so you've got two mums and bums, two groups, two PT did you say?
Caren Van Gastel (16:32.014)
Yes.
Jen Dugard (16:33.901)
shoot PT clients? What are they currently paying for how long?
Caren Van Gastel (16:39.161)
So one of them has paid for 10 sessions up front so it works out $70 a session.
Jen Dugard (16:48.557)
and how long does she get to use those 10 sessions in?
Caren Van Gastel (16:53.849)
That's a good question. I'm not sure I'll clarify. Put parameters around that.
Jen Dugard (16:59.447)
And is she coming weekly?
Caren Van Gastel (17:02.39)
You're That's Weekly, yes.
Jen Dugard (17:06.302)
Does she ever have a week off?
Caren Van Gastel (17:11.785)
Yeah, so we do because she's got three kids and I've got two. like, yeah, I changed her session this week to yesterday, this afternoon with all the kids because of my appointment this morning. yeah, I think guess here's where I get a little uncomfortable and not sure about the PT side of things because
It's the whole cancellation and working with mums and yeah and all that side of things. However I know deep down in my head I should just have clear terms and conditions and stick to it. It's the more empathetic side of me just goes I understand. Sorry you're pulling your hair out with me. You're like my goodness.
Jen Dugard (17:57.969)
No, I'm not. I'm like, you can understand and you can be empathetic and you can have boundaries around your job so that you can do your job. Yeah. And especially with the circumstance that you're moving into where it's like you need to know your weekly income and you're a mum and in order to look after these people, you need to look after you and your income. So task number three.
Caren Van Gastel (18:07.074)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (18:14.049)
Yeah, exactly.
Jen Dugard (18:24.427)
And I'm like, how do you not have solid terms and conditions? And we've been working together for so long. However, it doesn't matter. Now is the time. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. So your PT, 10 sessions to be used in, I want to say 10 weeks. If you want to say a maximum of 12 weeks, that is your prerogative. But no more than 12 weeks, because that means technically then you're getting paid
Caren Van Gastel (18:31.865)
I do for my mums and bums classes.
Caren Van Gastel (18:45.273)
Okay.
Okay, yep.
Mm-hmm.
Jen Dugard (18:53.709)
70 divided by 12, not 70 divided by 10. So I would love to encourage you to say it's a session per week. It's a 10 session pack to be used in 10 weeks.
Caren Van Gastel (18:56.247)
Yeah, sure. Yep.
Jen Dugard (19:09.069)
Yeah. It also means that if you need to have a very strong 24-hour cancellation policy and if she cancels in less than 24 hours, doesn't, you don't just hold the money, you take the money, that's a session gone. The first time you do that, it feels horrible.
Caren Van Gastel (19:31.159)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (19:32.065)
But they don't do it again.
Caren Van Gastel (19:34.786)
Hmm, yeah fair enough.
Jen Dugard (19:37.313)
So we're going to write terms and conditions for PT.
The other side of it though, Karen, is, and especially if you want to increase the number of PTs that we've got, you changing the sessions needs to be very, very minimal and only done if it's a legitimate emergency on your side because it has to be that reciprocal respect of time. And if it's like, this is locked in for you, then it's locked in for both of us.
Caren Van Gastel (19:57.294)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (20:00.631)
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (20:07.448)
Yep.
Jen Dugard (20:08.717)
Yeah, cool. What else with your PT isn't fit? Oh, you said one is on 10 sessions at $70. What's the other one on?
Caren Van Gastel (20:18.226)
so not gonna lie, the other one is on she's 180 a month. So she was originally, I was originally seeing her in person and then COVID hit and she moved online. So that's where she's at the 180 a month, which is what I was charging like back there. And then she's kind of switched back to in person, but we do half an hour sessions, one a week. So it works out like 40.
think it's 40 or 45 a week for half an hour.
Jen Dugard (20:52.109)
And this $70 woman, she... The $70 woman, is she doing 45s or hours?
Caren Van Gastel (20:52.556)
And I know that's Larry.
Caren Van Gastel (21:00.088)
45 minutes. So this other one, my other one is just doing half an hour, but she warms up beforehand. She knows the drill. She's ready for me to turn up. I get there. I help her with the strength stuff and then, yeah. So it's quick in and out.
Jen Dugard (21:03.158)
Okay.
Jen Dugard (21:14.157)
Okay, so she's been sitting at this hundred. Yeah, she's been sitting at $180 since COVID, which was, I can't even remember when it was now 2021 or something like that. Okay, cool. So this woman is going to get a price increase too.
Caren Van Gastel (21:21.752)
Yeah,
Caren Van Gastel (21:27.512)
Okay, yeah.
Jen Dugard (21:29.111)
doesn't have to be a lot, but it needs to be something. What would you feel comfortable with increasing her price point to?
Caren Van Gastel (21:31.768)
you
Caren Van Gastel (21:42.744)
I don't even know. I'm sorry if she's at...
Jen Dugard (21:45.089)
I... Are you going to her?
Caren Van Gastel (21:48.877)
Yeah, but she's literally around the corner. So it's not, and there's no travel involved in this one. Whereas my other one is, is, you know, 20 minutes away drive.
Jen Dugard (21:51.563)
It doesn't matter, you're offering an in-house.
Jen Dugard (22:00.909)
the 10 PT pack one.
Caren Van Gastel (22:03.414)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (22:06.305)
Okay, so we're going to increase both of them then.
Caren Van Gastel (22:12.504)
you
Jen Dugard (22:15.693)
So if we're increasing the $45 a week one to I've got a number, but what's your number?
Caren Van Gastel (22:26.84)
55 a week or 60? What's your number?
Jen Dugard (22:29.037)
Cool, Which, it was minimum 55, so I'm, you know, as long as we're edging in the right direction. And then your $70 a week one, $70 per session one, can we get that up to like more like 80 bucks?
Caren Van Gastel (22:35.768)
Okay, right. Yeah, yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (22:49.673)
Yeah, yeah we can, yeah.
Jen Dugard (22:52.429)
And then that makes me go, then this 55 one should actually be 65, but you can inch that up bit by bit for her. And the other thing with PT is we can set new prices. So we can go, okay, in-person PT is $80 for 45 minutes moving forwards. And it's almost like it should be 70, but $65 for 30 minutes. suggest, and I would recommend you don't do any more 30 minutes.
Caren Van Gastel (22:59.084)
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (23:04.77)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (23:18.786)
Mm-hmm.
Jen Dugard (23:21.643)
sessions.
Caren Van Gastel (23:22.4)
No, no, that's yeah, that one's just kind of evolved like that. And yeah, it's not where I want to continue going with it. Like obviously with her, but not bring anyone else on.
Jen Dugard (23:25.559)
But that's okay, it's all right.
Yeah, yeah. So what you could do, yeah, and that's what I was gonna say is like these are your new price points. So it's $80, $80 a session for 45. If you want me to travel, there's a travel fee.
So technically another $20 on there to travel, which if it's 20 minutes, you're driving 40 minute in the car. So technically you should be really earning another 45 minutes for the amount of travel time that you're doing. So you need to put at least some travel time on there. You could set out like if it's 10 minutes, then it's this amount of time. This is how much the travel fee is if it's a little bit further, but we really need to make sure that you're charging accordingly for travel.
Caren Van Gastel (23:57.474)
Mm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (24:17.333)
and rewriting your PT price points moving forward. And then also sending these guys a letter and also having that one-on-one, like in-person conversation, because it's a nice way to broach it to just say, look, I'm putting my prices up in the new year. This is what they're going up for anyone new coming in. This is where yours is gonna go to for this period of time. And then maybe in six months time, you're gonna bring them in line with everyone else, or maybe you just go, only two of them. I'm actually just gonna.
up the price a little bit and then just let them know that they get that for life and either one of those options is absolutely fine. Yeah, if there was like 20 of them and you're like, no, we need to gradually bring them in line, but for two, it's not so bad. So action number.
Caren Van Gastel (24:46.413)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (24:52.789)
Okay.
Caren Van Gastel (24:56.95)
Yeah. Yeah. So with, with the one that I travel to now, sorry.
Jen Dugard (25:03.041)
Yeah, there you go, carry on.
Caren Van Gastel (25:06.756)
okay. So again, that was not one that I was really looking for anything. She came to me via mental health practitioner who I know, and she knew I could support her. again, the the travel into home thing, really, my mind was only a much smaller radius from my home or from where I do my classes working in with all of that. So that was my initial idea when I started.
branching out into the mobile PT, but it's just at the moment where it's at these outliers type thing. So I'm happy to have a clear picture of this is what it's going to be and yeah, moving forward.
Jen Dugard (25:46.561)
Yep, awesome. And then if someone like that comes to you again, you've got this clear directional of, can do that, but it's an extra 50 bucks for travel. It's $80 and then I charge $50 on top of that for travel time because it's more than five minutes from my home or it's more than 10 minutes from my home or whatever it is. Yeah, so maybe getting onto Canva and creating a PT program, like a PT packages, or at least it's just a PT price list.
and having all of these caveats in there of if I'm traveling, if it's over this amount of time, this is what I charge and making sure you've got those minimum numbers and you can put your terms and conditions on the bottom of that so it can be packaged up nicely with your prices at the top, mobile PT, this is how much it is if it's within a 10 minute drive, this is how much is added on top if it's over 10 minutes and maybe just have that as standard if it's over 10 minutes, extra $50 travel fee, then your terms and conditions.
Are you gonna stick with the 10 session situation or you'd rather have people on a monthly?
Caren Van Gastel (26:50.648)
Well, when I first started looking at this at the start of the year, I was like, I had three, um, like a three session pack, a five session pack and a 10 session pack. So if you signed up for the three, was going to, it worked out to be, I think $90 a session. If you signed up for the five, it was 80 and then the 10, the 70. So yeah, but I'm just, I felt right at the time, but it's not really, I don't, yeah. Is it
better or to be doing like just a monthly monthly payment or is packages better with those stricter conditions than what I've got.
Jen Dugard (27:32.877)
So I'm a big fan of monthly recurring income, if you can create it. So that's a good plan. I'm also not a fan of reducing.
the cost of your services because someone trains with you more. Because there's no incentive then, I mean, yes, there's an incentive for them to train more, but for you, it'd be better to have three independent clients and three people training, or one person training three times a week. And it's still your time, it's your energy. There could be the argument that maybe it's less planning because you're planning for one person rather than three different people.
Caren Van Gastel (27:46.402)
you.
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (28:03.032)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (28:10.946)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (28:12.001)
but I have always drawn a line in the sand and just gone if it's, this is what my fee is, whether it's a group session, whatever, and that's how much it works when you go into like a big studio space and they're running like minimum five sessions a day and you've got, and people can book in across, you know, 50 sessions a week or something like that, or 30 sessions a week, but when you're a small PT with very limited availability, it significantly.
decreases your income by doing things like that and you just can't exist and compete. So we're gonna pick a price whether it's $80 for 45 minutes or whatever it is and they can pay monthly or they can pay like it'd be good to get them locked in for the term like you lock everyone else in so they could pay monthly if you wanted them to but you lock them in for that eight or twelve week term.
Caren Van Gastel (28:43.0)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (28:54.381)
Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (29:02.379)
Right, yeah.
Jen Dugard (29:09.377)
Obviously then you've got to make sure that when you're calculating your income that you are dividing your, let's say you work for 40 weeks by 52 weeks to average out your income so that you still get paid in your holidays. So you're going to need to increase the income. But if you have everyone locked in for a term and then it's monthly direct debit or get them to pay you upfront and then you allocate your funds.
PT can be a little bit harder to have people pay upfront, but I guess if they're paying for a 10 session pack upfront, it's the same anyway, really. But you just really bring it in line with that kind of term time and then allocating your own payments. So.
Caren Van Gastel (29:43.426)
Mm. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (29:53.783)
how does that feel? So then they're locked in for that 12, 10 to 12 week period. And then they can see it's interesting here as well, isn't it? It's like with our groups, we often go out and ask them if they're coming back. I know some of the Mumsafe trainers have got it set up so that they ask if people want to not come back rather than asking them if they're coming back. So let me know if you want to cancel. So maybe for your PT, it's just a, just check in to make sure we're rolling over to our next term.
Caren Van Gastel (30:00.313)
Mm.
Caren Van Gastel (30:14.466)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (30:22.411)
and then you just keep their monthly direct debit or their next payment coming out so it's kind of set and forget.
Caren Van Gastel (30:22.957)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (30:29.622)
Yeah. So with the, does it work with a debit? So my terms are 10 weeks generally, and it's coming out monthly. How is that? I mean, I don't know. My brain just goes, blah.
Jen Dugard (30:30.817)
The other thing you could...
Jen Dugard (30:41.261)
Yeah, you can do it a couple of ways. can know that's fine. You could you could do it so that it is monthly, but you can explain to your clients it's paid over 12, three months. So you divide that over that period of time so that they're still paying in the holidays. But it's actually pro pro rotted based on the 10 weeks. And that way you could create that. So if we had $80 times 10, but they're going to pay
Monthly, let's just put it into two three months and you divide that by three So they're paying two hundred and sixty six dollars sixty six per month to come out at the end of that and Then they can keep rolling and maybe slightly different because of the different months But the other option is maybe fortnightly could be easier fortnightly payment rather than monthly that way if you chose to you could just stop it on The two weeks that you have off so some trainers choose to pause direct debits
Caren Van Gastel (31:22.316)
Yeah, sure.
Jen Dugard (31:40.173)
It kind of would make sense and be nice if you just didn't do that. So if you had fortnightly direct debit, we go back to that 800. We want to take six debits because it's over 12 weeks and they pay 133.33 every two weeks. And then you actually don't, you don't have to go in and pause debits. They don't have to, the only way you cancel it's like on that final debit with the two weeks in advance. That's when they have to say,
Caren Van Gastel (31:40.92)
Mm-hmm.
Caren Van Gastel (31:44.994)
Thank
Jen Dugard (32:06.357)
if they're not coming back for the following term, it's got to be done before that final direct debit date, which would be end of term anyway, going into two weeks holiday. And then you've got the opportunity to cancel or maybe they need to give you more notice than that, like three weeks, because you need time to recruit somebody else.
Yeah, but that would be nice. then you don't, said and forget unless they're cancelling and you don't need to worry at all about, and then you've got recurring income every fortnight. You've got, you know how much money's coming into your bank account, which can be really nice.
Caren Van Gastel (32:42.902)
Yeah, my son's calling me. I just please check? Thank you.
Jen Dugard (32:45.537)
Yeah, go. Go, go, Yes, please, please do.
Caren Van Gastel (33:12.472)
Sorry.
Jen Dugard (33:13.847)
You okay? It's alright, that was quick.
Caren Van Gastel (33:17.334)
I'm okay, he's okay. It was. don't know where that pen went, but anyway. Okay. Short.
Jen Dugard (33:27.661)
All right. Okay, so we've got, so I guess number three is all we've done that, terms and conditions for PT, how often are they paying you, how long are they paying you for, do you have clarity around now what that looks like for you? Or are you still unsure?
Caren Van Gastel (33:47.609)
Yes, yes, no, so there's that skirt. However, just then how do I then factor in if I was to rent a room or a movement space to run my PT out of instead of the at their home and then charging the travel. So I've got a space which I could potentially use and it's $80 a day.
Jen Dugard (34:09.601)
Well, you can...
Caren Van Gastel (34:15.944)
if I did it within school hours I would fit five clients in max like four to five so then that's like the rent would be you know up to 20 20 dollars per client
Jen Dugard (34:29.165)
And how many days would you do?
PT at $80 a day.
Caren Van Gastel (34:37.304)
one or two days, one or two. Like I think to start with one. Well, that's what I was thinking. And then I, because I'm like, I'm just anxious about signing up somewhere and then, you know, not having the clients right away to, you know, to cover that.
Jen Dugard (34:41.581)
That's quite expensive rent.
Jen Dugard (34:54.707)
Why don't I have you explore, is it a gym or like what is the space?
Caren Van Gastel (35:00.588)
No, that's it's the space at my one of my women's health physios.
Jen Dugard (35:06.701)
Honestly, I would go out and look at, just do a little bit of market research because from my knowledge and different in different places and different socio-economic areas, but you'd be looking at paying like anything from 200 to 350 a week in rent, a week in rent. So it could be good for you to go to the local gym or the local PT studio and find out what you would be charged if you went into something like that.
And then you can go back to your physio and you know, you've got to take into consideration they could put the room, they could give the room to somebody else, but $80 a day, if you were in there for five days, I'm not saying you would be, that's like 400 bucks a week rent. That's a lot.
Caren Van Gastel (35:54.104)
Yeah
Jen Dugard (35:57.549)
Could you negotiate per client? Is it a long, yeah, I mean, I get that they want to get the money for the room and maybe they're just going to say, well, if you're not, you don't want it, you're not going to pay that then we need somebody else.
Caren Van Gastel (36:01.741)
Well,
Caren Van Gastel (36:10.646)
Yeah, yeah, there might be some.
Jen Dugard (36:14.049)
The other option is a half day.
Caren Van Gastel (36:17.836)
Yeah, so I went back and said, do you have an hourly rate? And they said $50 an hour. And I was like, well, that's, that's a huge, yeah, a huge thing. like my only being in that space would be like, I'd be seen more by the, especially moving into that prolapse stuff. I think it would be a good place to be as opposed to just going into another general gym. Do you know what I mean? So that's where I'm and yeah, that's
Jen Dugard (36:26.476)
except
Jen Dugard (36:45.11)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (36:46.55)
where I'm just a little bit unsure about if that's the right place to be pushing or do I just kind of work on that mobile PT but have those clearer boundaries in place for money or or ideally in would be that prolapse program that I could do more online as well as seeing people so
Jen Dugard (37:09.549)
Yeah, so my next question was going to be, there any benefit of you being in the physio clinic for the referrals? And I think that this is two separate conversations and it's one of the questions you came into with today, like what is my prolapse offering? Because your prolapse offering is an $80 a session. Your prolapse offering referred to you in a physio clinic is $120, if not more. And then you can say, if you're getting referrals through them, well, I need one client.
Caren Van Gastel (37:15.992)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (37:27.338)
No, no.
Jen Dugard (37:39.341)
that's come through the clinic that gives me a profit of $40, obviously without any other costs. And that's my rent for the day paid for. And if I've got, you know, what if you just did one day in there to start with, you did five clients at 120, which I think is 600, minus your $80 rent, you're left with 520 for that one day.
Caren Van Gastel (37:45.686)
Yeah, yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (37:57.784)
Mm.
Jen Dugard (38:06.923)
and then you do your mobile PT outside of that, which doesn't cost you anything. And then if that's going really well, then you commit to a second day.
Caren Van Gastel (38:15.244)
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
Jen Dugard (38:22.359)
How does that sound?
Caren Van Gastel (38:22.604)
Yeah, that sounds good.
Jen Dugard (38:27.831)
and then it depends on how much do you wanna work.
Caren Van Gastel (38:28.428)
Yeah, so I think...
Caren Van Gastel (38:33.752)
I really think I just want to be known as that trainer who works with mums and prolapse and runs the mums and bums classes. Do you know what I mean? Like the more generalized just PT for mums I feel like is yeah not where I want to be.
which hopefully doesn't negate everything we just talked about.
Jen Dugard (38:52.877)
Okay, so do we, no it doesn't. I mean, you've got to talk about it all to get to where you want to be anyway. But when I hear you say that, then the conversation then is, well, we're earning $420 a week from two Mums and Bubs classes. Then we're going to $520 charging $120 a session for your prolapse referrals.
Caren Van Gastel (39:01.389)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (39:24.173)
And so that's $520 for one day. Maybe the goal is two of those days, equaling 1040 plus you 420. And that's gotten us to pretty much to that.
Jen Dugard (39:45.229)
1500 that we talked about at the beginning. And then you've got these little PTs to add on, but we're not going to spend a lot of effort trying to grow that. If the PTs come up, you've got a price plan, you've got, you know, the other side of it is, is you just jack the price of your PT up because you're like, I don't care if I do it or not. So how far can I push this? And then if someone says yes, then I get paid more money. Like that's a good philosophy.
Caren Van Gastel (39:47.564)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (40:05.334)
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (40:10.701)
And every time someone signs up, you just inch the price up a little bit more because you're getting more confidence and then you can move forward with it.
Jen Dugard (40:24.063)
It would be then interesting to talk to the physio about what is the referral pathway? How does this look? How are people going to come to me? Are you going to send me everyone that has a prolapse? Are you just going to put my flyers up and no one's going to actively refer anyone to me?
Caren Van Gastel (40:39.789)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (40:45.75)
Yeah, anytime. Yeah, have that. Like when I spoke to her before, I said, you know, was more just like this is what I'd like to do. And she kind of offered the space available. So at the moment, they don't seem to have their booked up, and they don't have a lot of appointments or people are waiting for longer for like exercise progression type things. So they're seeing all the women that need the actual like treatment and stuff. But if you're further along down your treatment plan and you're
more the exercise progressions, they can do that. And they've got another physio as well in there that's, you know, trained to do that. But I think it's just there. Yeah, I would kind of be filling a little bit of that gap. But I also don't want to feel like I'm taking away from what they're doing. Do you know what I mean? So it's just like, I think I probably need to have that conversation with them and say, right, I really love to do this. Perhaps the I am worried about, you know, that
cost and what's the referral, easier a referral pathway or yeah, I don't know. I just need to have that conversation, I think.
Jen Dugard (41:51.884)
Yeah, it's interesting because there's other ways that you could set up this partnership. So what I just heard you say was I'm worried that I'm taking something away from them. You know, they might end up going, well, $80 a day is not very much if I'm getting, if they're passing the clients to you, you know, so there's that. And is it then a percentage split where you're like, well, I'd be charging $120 for this. They're coming in and they're paying $180.
Caren Van Gastel (41:57.367)
Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (42:10.678)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (42:20.749)
because it's through the PT, the physio clinic, maybe they're able to charge that to their health insurance. I don't know this, you'll have to check it all. And then the, so then the, the clinic is taking $40 from that. You're taking 120 because you're delivering the service. But if they then feed you five clients over the course of a day, they've got five times four. Now they've earned $200 instead of their $80. And it is in their interest to put bums on seats for you.
Caren Van Gastel (42:46.37)
Mmm.
Caren Van Gastel (42:50.59)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (42:51.437)
So there's a different, there's lots of different ways you could set up this partnership that then becomes a win-win for everyone because you're right in going, well, why would they give it to me when they could earn over $100 themselves? But if they've not got the capacity to service those people, how do we make it so it's appealing for them to actually give them to you? They earn more money, way more than $80, but you're still getting, now you're getting your $120 and you're not having to take your $80 rent out of that because it's already been looked after.
Caren Van Gastel (43:02.562)
Mmm. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (43:20.649)
in the fee that they're charging the client.
Caren Van Gastel (43:21.836)
you.
Jen Dugard (43:26.701)
So I guess the conversation, and I like to go forward with any partnership and not be like, well, this is what I want, but to say, what do you think? If we didn't do a rent arrangement and you guys were, and I was supporting your backlog of clients that need to exercise, what could that look like for you? And just see what they come up with because sometimes people come up with things that are way better for us than we came up with for ourselves.
Caren Van Gastel (43:34.284)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (43:53.367)
Yeah, so in our initial discussion, we talked about this and she did say like, are you looking for us to take you on or just like the space for you to do your thing? And I said, well, I like, I wasn't thinking that I was more just looking for the space for my thing. And I said that I said, but I'm open to, you know, how we could make it work. But she then came back and said, and yeah, wasn't really looking down that path. So
it's more the space for me but no like she doesn't want to take me on as a no I wouldn't mind it but no I was
Jen Dugard (44:23.853)
Well you're not, you don't want her... Yeah, and you don't want her to take you on. No.
Well you would because you wouldn't be getting paid $120 an hour, you'll get paid a shitty $50 an hour hourly rate, if that.
Caren Van Gastel (44:40.268)
Yeah, right. Okay.
Jen Dugard (44:42.445)
So you don't want to be employed by them. You want to be a contractor that's helping them to, you know, it's a win-win for everybody if they're willing to split the cost. mean, like Allied Health are not allowed to take a referral fee, but they're passing someone to you. You're charging a contractor fee to deliver the service and they're charging the top line. I mean, yeah, just go in again and maybe have a chat and listen with this in the back of your mind. And then...
Caren Van Gastel (44:52.524)
Yeah. Right. Okay.
Caren Van Gastel (45:11.062)
Yeah, okay.
Jen Dugard (45:12.205)
see what they kind of suggest. But yeah, $80 a day, if you are getting clients from them and you're able to charge about $120, it's not a bad arrangement.
Caren Van Gastel (45:28.312)
Yeah, no that's true.
Jen Dugard (45:28.449)
So then, so then, so let's go into, there more that we need to discuss in terms of the prolapse offering?
Caren Van Gastel (45:38.837)
Caren Van Gastel (45:43.531)
No, I don't, well, it just like how to package it. Do I package it like just PT supporting women with prolapse or like as a specific program, even though it would be quite individualized, it's not going to be the one generic program for everyone. Yeah, I guess it's just how do you, how do I promote that? Because there's lots of programs out there on the internet, know, restore your core or
another one, there's a few, that always keep coming up as recommended for mums with prolapse and I kind of want my own version of that. So I'm popping up when people in these prolapse groups saying I need to help, what exercise can I do, yeah so how's that looking? So I'm working on a lead magnet at the moment for here's my top 10 tips of exercise, how to exercise if you've got prolapse, but then yeah what's the next step?
Jen Dugard (46:35.041)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (46:42.698)
is it or do I just get them to book a call with me and then we chat about what's going to work best for them because some might be in person some might be on
only depending on where they are, you know.
Jen Dugard (47:00.161)
Yeah. And I think what I have in a random way heard you say is that generic programming doesn't work and people that have prolapse, just like any people that want to exercise generic programs will only get you so far. So, you know, and then hooking this into the third point you came into it today. So social media strategy clarity, like what is your overarching message that positions you as the go-to trainer to work with for moms with prolapse?
Caren Van Gastel (47:08.278)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Mmm.
Caren Van Gastel (47:20.578)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (47:29.653)
So what I heard you say is something along the lines of every prolapse journey is individual. So what if on your social media, in your packaging, and you don't need to justify price point, but we're not generic programming. Like your prolapse isn't generic. So therefore nor is your programming. Like think about all of these phrases that you can put onto your social media and you can put into your lead magnets and you can seed.
Caren Van Gastel (47:48.31)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (47:58.049)
throughout your nurture sequence and all of those kind of things. And these are your anchor things that you're gonna use every single week. So there's gonna be at least one or two anchor points around your prolapse journey is individualized. There are no generic prolapse experiences. Like what's the terminology? What are the words? And then how are you fixing that for them? And then what are they receiving? I'm sure that they're getting a...
If someone comes to you, what's the service that you deliver?
Caren Van Gastel (48:33.546)
so yeah. So when they will come to me, it's that initial consultation and just trying to work out what, what it is that they're after. You know, some women will be like, I want to get back to, you know, back to the gym or back to this and other women are just like, I don't even know where to start or I don't, you know, just want to be able to live their normal life with again, look after the kids without worrying about the insides falling out type thing. So there's that whole fear.
side of it as well that in trying to give these women with prolapse hope that and that support that they can do things and that obviously not you know stopping everything is actually more detrimental to your health. So yeah and then working with just the basic principles, posture, breathing, pelvic floor and TA connection and then adding that into movement.
your breathing strategies with your movement and then the progression from there.
Jen Dugard (49:36.109)
Cool, so if we started to put that into a package, so they get coming to you, they're gonna get a one-on-one consultation so that you understand where they're at right now and then we're gonna talk through your goals or your objectives or your reason for being there and everyone's is gonna be slightly different. Could you put in there that you will then also on their behalf talk to their pelvic health physiotherapist so that you know.
Caren Van Gastel (49:41.293)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (50:03.319)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (50:03.585)
where they're at. there's this, I'm gonna manage communication and that multidisciplinary care with your pelvic health physio so that I have that information. Then you've got breathing, like all your breathing strategies, all your pelvic floor, all your TA. So you're gonna communicate.
Caren Van Gastel (50:16.311)
and the specialists as well.
Jen Dugard (50:25.537)
with other practitioners. And you know, you're highlighting that like to make your life easy so that you don't have to remember all the things so that I can individualize your programming. Then you've got, you know, breathing strategies. And if you're packaging this up, I wonder, and you might already have them and whether they need to be redone in a professional capacity. But you know, do you have videos on breathing technique that they, that can be packaged up into this?
So when they come and work with you, they get access to bonuses, bonus videos on breathing strategies that you can use at home. I even wrote down lifestyle strategies. So do they get a bonus section on lifestyle strategies and how to cope when your prolapse is not good? You know, what should I be doing at the end of the day? What support should I be using? What can I do to take the pressure off in daily life?
Caren Van Gastel (51:00.492)
Yeah. Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (51:14.06)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (51:20.641)
And then obviously, so what other bonuses could you layer in there? Like the breathing, pelvic floor, you know, is it lifting strategies? So you've got lifestyle strategies and then you might have lifting strategies, which technically could be the same, but I think you kind of know what I'm like. The three bonuses. So breathing, breathing, lifting, lifestyle. I feel like there's some kind of, could that be an L one?
Caren Van Gastel (51:21.015)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (51:24.504)
Mm-hmm.
Caren Van Gastel (51:41.421)
Mm.
Jen Dugard (51:50.752)
LLL BBB, I don't know, you can play with that. And then they get their individualised program.
Caren Van Gastel (51:53.079)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (51:58.443)
And then how often are they checking in with you? Obviously, if they're seeing you one-on-one in person, it's going to be different to being online. But what,
Caren Van Gastel (52:05.078)
Yeah, online I check in with them every week.
Caren Van Gastel (52:11.456)
At a minimum, like I'm often in there checking. It's an automated message. So it's just a couple of questions. How did you feel your week was? What was the win? What you know, what are you going to work on this week? And do you need any more help or something like that? And, then if like, but I'm checking throughout the week, like if people aren't doing anything, then I'm just like, Hey, how's it going? You know, things, yeah.
Jen Dugard (52:11.991)
And is that, how's that done, is it?
Caren Van Gastel (52:39.298)
So there's a regular weekly check-in.
Jen Dugard (52:40.119)
I wouldn't do.
Jen Dugard (52:43.851)
Yeah, I wonder whether in this package there's a prolapse symptom checker or some kind of survey that they do at the beginning around their prolapse and how they feel. And then alongside those kind of check-ins, but where's the prolapse symptom check-in? So, cause that's like a fundamental thing that makes your program different to any other PT checking in with any other person during the week. It's like, it's not have you done the things like, yes, that's an element of it, but it's how did you feel doing the things?
Caren Van Gastel (52:51.511)
Mmm. Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (53:01.271)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (53:10.956)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (53:13.761)
where are you in your cycle? Has this flared up? Do we know that we need to reduce this load or this impact on week, know, whatever week it is in their cycle when, you know, all that kind of stuff that you already know about. So how do you phrase that in this package? Like it's a prolapse, like weekly prolapse symptom checker or something along those lines. So all of this stuff starts to add up and...
Caren Van Gastel (53:29.559)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (53:34.764)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (53:39.117)
you know, maybe it's not, you're not selling it $120 per session. Like we were talking about before, maybe you're selling a package, a 10 week package in alignment with all your other things. So it was $120 times 10 before, but maybe with all of this stuff, the package is $2,000 and then you can pay that you can either pay that. we start then to go into, um, having the three package options. Package number one is, you know,
Caren Van Gastel (53:58.765)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (54:08.493)
something very basic like it literally is you're $120 a week. You come and see me, that's about it. Your middle package, which is generally the one that you want everyone to go for. And then you have your one, your third one at the end. And then you look at the different price points so they can pay $1999 for a 10 week course. They can pay that all upfront and maybe pay 1079. So they get not 79, that would need to be 1000.
I don't know, 800. So you give them a couple hundred bucks off for paying upfront, but then you might, if they then go into a payment plan, it becomes slightly more. So you can look at the, rather than three different packages, you can have the same package, but three different price points and you can get them to choose by the upfront package where they save a couple hundred bucks. And then each one of these things, when you list them on your package, you're putting, you know, the breathing, breathing,
Caren Van Gastel (54:45.388)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (54:52.406)
Yeah, yeah.
Jen Dugard (55:07.895)
videos are worth $300. The weekly prolapse check-ins, that's worth $49 a week, or I don't know, $100 a week. So the value of the package is actually quite big, but then the price point in that comparison looks small and you get out of this loop of paying $120 a session, because you're not paying for a session anymore. When these women come in, I work with you for a minimum of 10 weeks, because that's when we see...
Caren Van Gastel (55:17.217)
Hmm.
Caren Van Gastel (55:20.493)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (55:27.756)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (55:33.517)
progress happens because you've committed to it. Most women stay with me for at least two cycles, if not a whole year, so that we really get you on that pathway to be doing the things that you wanna do. So you're always forward planning, always talking to them about the next step and seeding that next step. Put this beautiful package together, how would you like to pay?
Caren Van Gastel (55:40.493)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (55:56.205)
And then we go back to your income and this is where we kind of go, well, is $500 a week enough? And I know that you, I heard you say that it is, but how many of these prolapse people can you or do you want to be working with? And if we said five across that day that you're in the clinic, if we just go back to that kind of model, if we've got five people each paying $19.99 times five,
Caren Van Gastel (55:58.008)
you
Jen Dugard (56:25.485)
That's $10,000 for 10 weeks.
with five clients. Do the two days, it's $20,000 for 10 weeks.
and it starts to actually move you from, you know, the business doing PT, getting whatever, and it's kind of just, you know, where you've been cruising for a little while, like you've had other things going on, it's not been the time to turn attention to your business to, this could actually be something really fucking cool and create a really good income.
Caren Van Gastel (56:59.19)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like that's what really excites me. And I'm really excited about doing that and putting that together. And then I'm thinking, so I know we talked on the mom safe progress call about, you know, reaching out to those people who are working with the moms with prolapse, as opposed to just trying to find, you know, targeting marketing to the individuals. But
Jen Dugard (57:21.517)
Mm-hmm.
Caren Van Gastel (57:28.84)
I guess it's that how do I show them these medical professionals that I'm the right person that they can be referring to their clients to? Do you know like there's that imposter syndrome? I know I can help. I know I've got a lot of information. However, like it's yeah, how am I showing that off? Especially when like I really got three clients who I've done this for already. But I feel like I need more. I don't know. It's just yeah.
Jen Dugard (57:40.93)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (57:59.159)
Well, you're starting to build your credibility, right? And it's about becoming that go-to person in your area or everywhere for women that have prolapse. I think, you know, starting in your local area is good, but this has the legs to be huge, like absolutely massive to support people. And your job is to build your credibility and to build your confidence. So, you know, the three women that you've got already, do you have testimonials?
Caren Van Gastel (57:59.609)
What do I need? Yep.
Caren Van Gastel (58:07.576)
Mmm.
Caren Van Gastel (58:12.909)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (58:24.407)
from them, are they willing to give testimonials even if they want to do it anonymously because it's a delicate subject and they might not, or they, you know.
Caren Van Gastel (58:31.734)
Yeah, I can like I can ask them as part of like when they finished up with me one was last year, one was the start of this year when they finished but I you know as part of my process is that feedback form and stuff but I think only one of them has done it. The other one is still with me at the moment as well. So yeah I could definitely ask and probably yeah I would get some more feedback than what I've currently got that would more align with what I'm trying to.
do here because the one that's already filled out the form I've looked at it and I've tried to incorporate that when I was putting together my profile thing but I feel like it just wasn't enough like as detailed as enough as what I want to show what I can actually do.
Jen Dugard (59:15.181)
Yeah, so I think this is where you know, you're going to gather data over time and that, you know, the potential quest prolet's questionnaire at the start, maybe the middle and the end of their journey is going to give you data like what are they saying in terms of reporting symptoms, their strength, their capacity, like all that kind of thing. For the short term, go back and get the referrals or the whatever from or the testimonials from the people that have already been. And then it's
Caren Van Gastel (59:43.032)
Mm-hmm.
Jen Dugard (59:43.525)
you know, to begin with, to create your partner. So what you want to do is go, I'm going to meet with a pelvic health physio to go one to many. It might be very much be one-on-one meetings, explaining who you are, what you do, the results that you've got, the education that you've got, the ongoing education that you do, all of that kind of thing. So it might be a little bit more legwork to begin with and getting those trusted. You might only need like three trusted partners that are giving you a regular flow.
Caren Van Gastel (01:00:06.028)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:00:13.388)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:00:13.397)
of people to begin with because you can't handle more than let's say 10 clients at any given time anyway. And that could be part of your, you know, part of the appeal. Like I can only work with 10 clients at a time. You give them that profile sheet that you did, back it up with some credibility, some results. This is the way that we do things and the kind of stuff that we're delivering and you know, just go slowly, slowly into it. The other...
Caren Van Gastel (01:00:20.456)
Mmm, yeah that's right.
Caren Van Gastel (01:00:39.884)
Yeah, I think you just maybe think of another like I can obviously go through to the three pelvic health physios that I already have a good relationship with and just connect two of them I haven't spoken to for a little while. So just connecting with those and say this is what I like to do. So I think that's really helpful. And then there's a couple that I know that are a little bit further out, like, you know, Queenstown Monaco way and stuff who I've seen before. yeah, before going thinking too big, just starting with those few.
and going hopefully, you know, that's enough to just get started because they already trust me a little bit. They know what I do.
Jen Dugard (01:01:17.773)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And then my brain goes to, could start working on that, you know, the locally famous piece that you do that's outside of the partnership. So refining your social media. And one of the questions was, how do I do my social media? Well, so social media strategy, you know, you've, you've got your prolapse education, you've got your prolapse.
Caren Van Gastel (01:01:32.792)
Mmm.
Jen Dugard (01:01:42.273)
your key messaging around everyone's prolapse journey is individual. Then you've got some testimonials or things that people have said. Maybe you've got a prolapse safe exercise. So it's not that tricky to add it in there. And you know, what are the key pillars over the five days that you might post? Plus you've got your, you know, you're done for your mom safe stuff that you can add in where appropriate or where it fits into your key messaging. And then it's more about going, okay,
Caren Van Gastel (01:02:02.073)
Mm.
Caren Van Gastel (01:02:06.988)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:02:11.829)
and we probably don't have time to dig into it today, but what is your campaign cycle? When, like we've already talked about, this is all term-based, but when are you recruiting mums and bums? Then when is the messaging to your prolapse? But it might even be for you, Karin, that you recruit mums and bums outwardly. The majority of your prolapse clients come through your partners and then you're talking about them on your social so that odd person comes in, it adds to your credibility online, it builds your profile.
Caren Van Gastel (01:02:18.2)
Hmm.
Caren Van Gastel (01:02:27.116)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:02:37.868)
Yeah, right.
Jen Dugard (01:02:39.479)
but it's not the key way that you're bringing in these specific clients.
Caren Van Gastel (01:02:45.036)
Yeah, I definitely think I can talk more about prolapse on my socials and come up with a better plan of that. But yeah, I like that idea because my worry was if I'm going down this prolapse side of things, didn't want it to affect the mums and bums, know, more general mums and bums that I do because I don't want to give that up either. Yeah. But I feel like there's room for both.
Jen Dugard (01:03:03.383)
Mmm.
I don't think it will. I think there's also a, and again, today's probably not the time for the conversation, but you your branding. Empower Me Fitness is great, but it's not talking to mums with pelvic flex. You don't even talk about prolapse on your Instagram bio. And are you a mum's fitness specialist or are you fitness prolapse specialist? Or what are you?
Caren Van Gastel (01:03:21.537)
No.
Caren Van Gastel (01:03:32.108)
Yeah. Yeah. Like, mean, pelvic floor PT or prolapse PT kind of runs off the tongue a little bit more. And I've been using a little bit of that, lately to see, but I'm also cautious of like people saying, well, are you qualified to do what you're doing? And yeah, that's, I guess I'm worried about that, but, but why not? Why can't I be a pelvic floor personal trainer? Because I do have the knowledge and I definitely know my scope and I'm working with the
the medical professionals and allied health providers to support the mum in front of me. So, yeah, I guess that's been my little reluctance to really push that. Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:04:03.339)
the right people.
Jen Dugard (01:04:10.039)
Personal track.
Jen Dugard (01:04:14.317)
Well, you could rephrase it, it's like personal trainer with a special interest in prolapse.
And that's a lot of words instead of saying prolapse personal trainer. I do think refining your Instagram would be a really good idea because you've got empowered mom's fitness at the top, then you've got mom's fitness specialist, and then you've got fitness trainer. And that's you saying a lot of the same things more than once.
Caren Van Gastel (01:04:23.638)
videos. Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:04:31.085)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:04:35.576)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:04:41.453)
I love the fact that you've got mums in there though, so that is good. Empowered Mums Fitness. You probably then don't need to put Mums Fitness Specialist, it needs that second line, needs to be absolutely. Yeah, and then refining your, go back and do your ideal client, go back and do your pitch work and maybe bring it to the next progress call and let's refine that. So here's number.
Caren Van Gastel (01:04:50.274)
that needs the prolapse thing.
Jen Dugard (01:05:08.505)
We'll just recap your actions in a second, but that's a number like Refine Instagram. Or it's your pitch really, isn't it?
Caren Van Gastel (01:05:19.586)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:05:23.767)
So if we go and backtrack over what we wanted to get out of today, so we wanted to define a prolapse offering, wanted to get clarity around PT and we want to get social media strategy. Obviously we started with your finances, because that's really important. It's hard to build a business strategy if we don't know what we want to achieve. We've increased your class prices, so that is an action. And the first action was understanding very separately your business expenses and your personal expenses.
Caren Van Gastel (01:05:42.582)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:05:52.619)
Number three, we've got some clarity around PT. We've got new price points and we've got clarity that we're probably not gonna push too much of it. But if we do, we know how much we're gonna charge. We've got good terms and conditions and we can also, you if you find yourself in a position where you're building the prolapse stuff, it's okay to take on a couple of PT's and then go, okay, this will transition over time into what I really want it to be. Then we've got...
Caren Van Gastel (01:06:01.87)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:06:14.028)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:06:20.769)
I guess we're going to go talk to your, the physio to see about the rent arrangement or whatever that arrangement is and formalize that or figure out exactly what that looks like. and then number five, we are going to, I guess, build your prolapse offering.
in a camber. Have you got, have I given you the template, the offering template?
Jen Dugard (01:07:00.971)
It's the one I use for MomSafe. So I'll give that to you so you can just build out your own offering based on that. It'll just give you a starting point, that's all. You can do whatever you want with it. And then number six is like, where are you going to get your prolapse referrals from?
Caren Van Gastel (01:07:07.306)
Okay.
Caren Van Gastel (01:07:11.382)
Yeah, sure.
Jen Dugard (01:07:20.097)
And that comes with finishing that prolapse sheet.
profile sheet and adding in testimonials.
Jen Dugard (01:07:35.949)
Et cetera.
Jen Dugard (01:07:42.189)
And then, you know, revisiting your numbers based on this prolapse offering at, you know, $199.99 for 10 weeks. Paid off fortnightly over 12, however they want to do it. And you're going to be smashing through that $1,500 a week ceiling.
Jen Dugard (01:08:07.661)
How do you feel?
Does it feel doable?
Caren Van Gastel (01:08:12.056)
I feel excited but still a little overwhelmed but it does feel doable but I mean...
Caren Van Gastel (01:08:22.616)
I'm still only trying to cram all this into a small amount of time. Hours per day, you know what mean? And at the moment, yeah, there's just, there's always more that just keeps popping up at the moment. yeah, I think it's helpful because I now have more clarity. So it's like, right, okay, I've got a bit of time today.
Jen Dugard (01:08:38.507)
Of course. Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:08:47.416)
what can I do? I'll just I'll do this but you know what I mean like I've just got those steps which are a little bit easier to focus on.
Jen Dugard (01:08:54.261)
Yeah. And this is about building out your plan, right? It's not, you're not going to get this done tomorrow. It could take you the next month to get it done, but what are the different projects? So if you think back to the time management stuff we've looked at before, three projects, five action points, might be less projects for you at the moment each week. But you know, you've got six projects or seven projects there, and you just write each project down, the action points under each project, and then you get to decide.
Caren Van Gastel (01:08:59.82)
Yeah. No.
Caren Van Gastel (01:09:08.278)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:09:18.338)
Mm.
Jen Dugard (01:09:22.187)
which one you want to do first. So getting on top of your finances, increasing your class price and refining your terms and conditions with the PT are things that, you know, maintain or increase your income right now. And then we start looking at your, your prolapse.
Caren Van Gastel (01:09:39.106)
Yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:09:40.033)
the building of your Prolapse stuff as we move forward and maybe it launches officially early next year or you you start building a waitlist this year. I don't know, there's so many things that we can talk about and directions we can go in. But I think when you have limited time, it's when you've got limited time that you really need these, this is what I'm doing, this is where I'm going, these are the actions I'm gonna do within that. And then staying accountable on your monthly calls with us.
Caren Van Gastel (01:09:42.84)
Hmm.
Caren Van Gastel (01:09:50.668)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Caren Van Gastel (01:09:58.777)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jen Dugard (01:10:09.293)
Well that was fun.
Caren Van Gastel (01:10:12.694)
Yeah, no that was good. Now I want to get stuck into it. I know. No, it's really helpful. Yeah, it's definitely really helpful. But at the same time, there's still a lot of work to do. And in my mind, I just want it done, you know? I just want it to be at that point where it's easier and all in place so I can go, right, this is what I'm doing now. Do you know what I mean? And I know that's not really possible, but...
Jen Dugard (01:10:13.879)
Was that fun? There's a little delay so it's like, yeah, yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:10:42.902)
It'd be nice to wake up tomorrow and it was all in place and I'd be like, yeah, this is awesome.
Jen Dugard (01:10:44.981)
Yeah, it's human nature. Absolutely.
Yeah, we all want it done. There's always more to do. And I think that's where we start to learn to enjoy the journey. Know that it's never really done, because once you get to the next point, it's like, I've done that. Now what's the next thing? Yeah, but yeah, I'm excited to watch it grow.
Caren Van Gastel (01:10:57.516)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:11:04.641)
Yeah.
Caren Van Gastel (01:11:09.08)
That's all right, yeah.
Jen Dugard (01:11:14.381)
I love it when people get to the point where they've been not necessarily coasting because other or life like seasons of life and then it's like okay for whatever reason now I'm ready to look at the bigger version of my impact.
Caren Van Gastel (01:11:28.92)
Yeah, yeah definitely. Yeah that's exciting part.
Jen Dugard (01:11:34.613)
Amazing. Thank you.
Caren Van Gastel (01:11:38.188)
Thank you very much. That's been awesome.
Jen Dugard (01:11:41.057)
Awesome. Well, I...
